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SpiderOakONE – Zero Knowledge Cloud Storage

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Re: SpiderOakONE – Zero Knowledge Cloud Storage

#71

Post by tptacek »

iaml wrote: post #63
tptacek wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you're speaking the language of product marketing, which is one I sort of speak too, can I gingerly offer you some advice? Until you come up with some other cool-sounding term for end-to-end encrypted storage, every time your product is discussed in a forum that includes people familiar with cryptography, the discussion is going to be dominated with threads about how your product doesn't do what its name claims…

Unless your target audience is not people who read such forums.

I get that, I do, but "zero knowledge" isn't all that compelling to begin with; this strategy just seems like it's almost all downside.

Re: SpiderOakONE – Zero Knowledge Cloud Storage

#74

Post by nyolfen »

sreitshamer wrote: post #67
hedora wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really want to give you guys money, but can't trust you without having client and server side source. I need client side source so third parties can freely audit your work. I need server side source so I can store my data at some random colo and wrap the rack in tinfoil (more realisitcally, so I know I can just switch providers if you are out of business in ten years). Have you considered licensing your stuff using…

Is open source really required? We at Haystack Software make a backup app (Arq) with client-side encryption that doesn't require any server side code (it supports a number of cloud providers' APIs). We don't publish the app's source, but the data format is open/documented, the data go in your cloud account, and you can monitor network traffic from it to ensure it's not connecting to us or anyplace unwanted. Your data…

any plans for a linux client?

Re: SpiderOakONE – Zero Knowledge Cloud Storage

#75

Post by jjeaff »

SilasX wrote: post #35
rarrrrrr wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for jumping in with suggestions. It's actually a harder problem than it seems! I have a feeling "provider-obscured" and "homomorphic" (while accurate!) are significantly less accessible to end users. I'll try to break it down: Do end users talk about the services they purchase using the word "provider"? Is for example, Facebook or Twitter commonly referred to as a social media "provider?" The most common examp…

Thanks for the explanation of your thinking there. FWIW, I don't think (contra the other posters) that it's that much of a stretch (of standard terminology) to call this "Zero knowledge" -- you are, after all, preventing information from flowing in a certain direction, just like in the ZK proofs. With that said, what about "opaque" instead of "obscured" and "host" or "cloud" instead of "provider"? Host-Opaque Cloud S…

You do realize that he is talking about terminology for the general public? The names you are suggesting are just terrible. They don't sound good and are not even close to widely understood terms (no offense intended). Perhaps you are not a native English speaker?

Re: SpiderOakONE – Zero Knowledge Cloud Storage

#76

Post by Veratyr »

BeetleB wrote: post #2

They've been around for a while and are highly regarded. The one thing that makes their privacy weak is: The software involved in the encryption/password handling is not open source. We have only their word for it that they are not snooping or letting anyone else snoop. If you're willing to do the extra work, you can get a cloud service like Dream Objects, and use software like duply/duplicity to store your files onl…

> They've been around for a while and are highly regarded.

By who?

My only experiences with them have been horrible. Their client is buggy, slow and horrible and their support left tickets for literally months until they basically gave up and gave me a refund.

Re: SpiderOakONE – Zero Knowledge Cloud Storage

#77

Post by _slwy »

Whenever SpiderOak comes up I can't help but share my experience with them.

In February SpiderOak dropped its pricing to $12/month for 1TB of data. Having several hundred gigabytes of photos to backup I took advantage and bought a year long subscription ($129). I had access to a symmetric gigabit fibre connection so I connected, set up the SpiderOak client and started uploading.

However I noticed something odd. According to my Mac's activity monitor, SpiderOak was only uploading in short bursts [0] of ~2MB/s. I did some test uploads to other services (Google Drive, Amazon) to verify that things were fine with my connection (they were) and then contacted support (Feb 10).

What followed was nearly __6 months__ of "support", first claiming that it might be a server side issue and moving me "to a new host" (Feb 17) then when that didn't resolve my issue, they ignored me for a couple of months then handed me over to an engineer (Apr 28) who told me: "we may have your uploads running at the maximum speed we can offer you at the moment. Additional changes to storage network configuration will not improve the situation much. There is an overhead limitation when the client encrypts, deduplicates, and compresses the files you are uploading"

At this point I ran a basic test (cat /dev/urandom | gzip -c | openssl enc -aes-256-cbc -pass pass:spideroak | pv | shasum -a 256 > /dev/zero) that showed my laptop was easily capable of hashing and encrypting the data much faster than SpiderOak was handling it (Apr 30) after which I was simply ignored for a full month until I opened another ticket asking for a refund (Jul 9).

I really love the idea of secure, private storage but SpiderOak's client is barely functional and their customer support is rather bad.

Re: SpiderOakONE – Zero Knowledge Cloud Storage

#78

Post by tedunangst »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #66
iaml wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless your target audience is not people who read such forums.

Exactly. The obvious counterpoint. Those people aren't buying shit from them and represent basically no market share. It's privacy-conscious users of services like DropBox they're going after. Most of them don't know crypto or a lot of terms people suggested here. Marketing wisdom dictates you call it whatever gets them to see its value & buy it. Then ignore the haters as you roll around in cash. Business 101 if goal…

Being the storage service that no cryptographer will recommend seems like a gambit that may backfire. Any day now the mainstream press will start asking experts for advice, and you'll be left out of the recommended list.

Re: SpiderOakONE – Zero Knowledge Cloud Storage

#79

Post by unstatusthequo »

Canada wrote: post #10

Spider Oak - Please stop describing your service as "Zero Knowledge" unless and until you deploy a service that is actually is. E2E encryption great, but it is not the same thing.

Have you built something better? Its amusing to hear comments like this when there are really no commercially available alternatives that come close without managing your own. My time is much too valuable to run my own. If yours isn't, build one and share it and charge and market it using your favorite parlance and consider avoidin trolling the one company that's at least trying not to suck.

Re: SpiderOakONE – Zero Knowledge Cloud Storage

#80

Post by nickpsecurity »

tedunangst wrote: post #78
nickpsecurity wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The obvious counterpoint. Those people aren't buying shit from them and represent basically no market share. It's privacy-conscious users of services like DropBox they're going after. Most of them don't know crypto or a lot of terms people suggested here. Marketing wisdom dictates you call it whatever gets them to see its value & buy it. Then ignore the haters as you roll around in cash. Business 101 if goal…

Being the storage service that no cryptographer will recommend seems like a gambit that may backfire. Any day now the mainstream press will start asking experts for advice, and you'll be left out of the recommended list.

We've had some time for that to happen. So, whose top players in online storage, whose top in secure storage, and did that match your prediction? Im betting against it.
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