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Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

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Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#281

Post by blakeyrat »

keithpeter wrote: post #273
blakeyrat wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I do need to close down/reboot a couple of times a day otherwise no point in encryption. Given, I'm not a Linux user, but I don't understand this at all. On Windows, encrypted is encrypted-- the lock screen is exactly as secure as the login screen. Are you saying that in Linux the lock screen is easily-bypassed? So you have to keep your computer logged-out when you're in a place it might get stolen?

I believe that would be 'encrypt my home drive' on Linux, then you basically log out to protect files. Not sure though.

What I'm not understanding is why logging out or rebooting is required to keep a computer with full disk encryption secure. That's certainly not the case on competing OSes like Windows.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#282

Post by _0w8t »

therealmarv wrote: post #234
_0w8t wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience Linux on Mac when the hardware is supported brings overall better experience for development than Mac OS. USB-to-anything dongles that just work without any driver installation, much better behaviour under memory pressure, container technologies that allows to run not-so-trusted software without overhead of VM, fancy networking setups for stimulating production setups. For that I tolerate ocasional (…

About drivers: You are right... but things get a lot lot more messy if your specific USB driver is not maintained in the Linux Kernel. I have the opposite experience with memory pressure (speaking only about desktop here). macOS (& Windows) do memory compression by default and most of Linuxes I know don't do that by default. I also have the feeling that at least desktop Linux get's incredible slow when you run out of…

I always activate zswap as a part of Linux installation. With that Linux handles memory pressure better than mac os or Windows especially when the size of dataset reaches 130-150% of RAM.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#283

Post by afarrell »

s_kilk wrote: post #266
forgotpwtomain wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dodgy networking Had recurring wifi issues on a Macbook Pro as well (as did many of my co-workers)... Not saying it's great on Linux but I would hardly call the alternatives much better...

Same, after about 48 hours uptime my MacBook will start dropping network connection every few minutes. This can only be cured by a full reboot. The MacBook also regularly (at least once per week) drops all input devices (including built in keyboard and trackpad), which can only be cured by a hard power-strangle and reboot. My colleagues experience the same problems too. Basically, the ultra-reliable Mac is a myth, it…

I've never experienced this. Have you considered taking it into the genius bar?

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#284

Post by afarrell »

cturner wrote: post #171
ynniv wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The method of interaction is so different it would be nicer to advise people to not use a pointing device at all. I've always wanted to like them, but the track point is a poor man's trackball, and where do you see a trackball these days?

One of the attractions of the trackpoint is that you don't have to move your fingers from the keyboard. Hence, people who are keyboard-centric get pointer access without the usual tradeoff. A dev running a tiling window manager can still have full use of their web browser. Expect it would be messy to work with for photoshop. For example, it recalibrates if you hold it down too long, and then creeps away when you rele…

I got an external Lenovo keyboard because I really like the trackpoint.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-0B47221-keyboards-Universal-...

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#285

Post by phaedrix »

mangecoeur wrote: post #190

As an ex-linux user and current mac user, I'm still frustrated by linux laptop hardware support. Ethernet ports that need to be re-plugged, suspend-to-disk not working... lots of glitches things that were already annoying 6-7 years ago but now are hard to justify compared with the polish you can expect from other systems. I could never go back from my macbook because I need everything to just work - no glitchy touchp…

I recently switched back to Linux (ThinkPad/Arch/Kernel4.8) after 5 years using a Macbook Pro (after using linux for 5 years previously).

Linux hardware support has become much better without a doubt.

However just in the last couple days I've had the following sporadic issues:

* External usb keyboard/mouse simply wouldn't work (and doesn't show up in lsusb). Restart fixed.

* If left overnight, occasionally won't wake up from sleep; requires restart.

* Upon start trackpad/trackpoint occasionally doesn't work; do not show up in xinput; probably fixable, but haven't dug into it.

On the other hand, mac had its own issues:

* Macbook takes relatively forever to come back from sleep; thinkpad is practically immediate.

* Macbook wireless constantly has issues connecting, to the point of having to turn off wireless and back on multiple times (this occurs often).

* Opening many tabs in chrome on mac causes serious slowdowns. Have yet to see any slowdown on thinkpad even with 20-30 tabs. This also goes generally for mac beachball issues.

In general, Arch/i3 combo is far better than MacOS for my needs (95% of time in terminal/browser).

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#286

Post by vinceguidry »

stewbrew wrote: post #255
mangecoeur wrote: post #190

As an ex-linux user and current mac user, I'm still frustrated by linux laptop hardware support. Ethernet ports that need to be re-plugged, suspend-to-disk not working... lots of glitches things that were already annoying 6-7 years ago but now are hard to justify compared with the polish you can expect from other systems. I could never go back from my macbook because I need everything to just work - no glitchy touchp…

I'm running linux on my laptops for decades and experienced none of the problems you mentioned. Everything works flawlessly. If you plan to run linux on your laptop, you will have to research first how well the computer is supported. You can't install MacOS (or even Windows) on just any computer neither.

I'll raise you one and say that even if you installed Linux on a laptop built for Linux, it would still be inferior to a MacBook. I bought a System76 GalagoPro a few years back, today it is a media center. It's the most use it's gotten since I bought it.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#287

Post by digi_owl »

mangecoeur wrote: post #190

As an ex-linux user and current mac user, I'm still frustrated by linux laptop hardware support. Ethernet ports that need to be re-plugged, suspend-to-disk not working... lots of glitches things that were already annoying 6-7 years ago but now are hard to justify compared with the polish you can expect from other systems. I could never go back from my macbook because I need everything to just work - no glitchy touchp…

The basic issue with all this is hardware manufacturers, and their fire and forget attitudes towards products.

Thus they barely get their stuff working on the major commercial platforms, and all the rest have to either beg for specs so they can write their own (good luck) or reverse engineers (and risking bricking the hardware because of abusing standards for firmware flashing and whatsnot).

And your primary complaint boils down to power management, aka ACPI. And it, like UEFI, suffers from the second system effect (Linus Torvalds do not hold either in high regard for example). There is at least one documented case of a name brand motherboard offering up junk ACPI data unless Linux claimed to be Windows.

Linux appears to be at a standstill because each time a new motherboard or expansion card gets released, the process basically starts from ground zero unless it happens to be based of some bottom of the barrel chip with zero modifications so the Linux devs can just add another product ID to the driver table and call it a day (resulting in things like USB webcam drivers that support some 100+ camera models).

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#288

Post by karussell »

bramblerose wrote: post #276
runn1ng wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still run Linux despite all the challenges and all the hardware constantly breaking and working just-not-right, because I just love the openness and I don't understand how can Apple (and windows) users survive without "apt-get". Homebrew is a poor substitute for me. I am basically using linux just for apt-get, the configurability and the ability to test server-side software in the same-ish environment as it will ac…

Consider using a VM, and using either Windows or OS X as graphical user interface. You can then easily SSH into the VM, and do most of the development there. If you run a samba (or nfs) server on the VM, you can even easily use e.g. VS Code. Add an X server and you can run (albeit not very fast) run graphical programs (e.g. and IDE) as well.

Which introduces issues on other sides ...

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#289

Post by yuhong »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #169
yuhong wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think the FSF ideology taken too far is pretty ridiculous anyway.

Any reason? I'm not sure I disagree, but it would be helpful for you to provide some justification for calling them "ridiculous".

microcode updates, for one

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#290

Post by digi_owl »

keldaris wrote: post #256
stephengillie wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used a T400 as my kitchen laptop for years, and recently put Win10 on it. I put my SSD in it, back with Win8. The laptop still works great, and it's my main PowerShell workstation - it's where I wrote my Arkdata player tracker static site. (Yes, I wrote it while standing in my kitchen.) The market is the same, really. What you're seeing is the end of Moore's law, with 10 year old laptops still being effective co…

When I said the market has regressed, I wasn't referring to the slowing advances in CPU performance, etc. Normally, such a slowdown would enable manufacturers to focus on creating better cases, improve peripherals, etc. Instead, the obsession with thinness and design fads has led to worse usability, much worse keyboards, fewer ports, etc., and maintainability is virtually gone as a concept. Obviously, this is largely…

Those things are still there, but you have to get into the B2B section of the OEM offerings to find them.

Thing about Thinkpads was that IBM didn't do consumer products.

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