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Ask HN: For beginners: what is the hardest part while learning web dev?

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Re: Ask HN: For beginners: what is the hardest part while learning web dev?

#31
post #26

These are all the things that made full stack webdev overwhelming for me: 1. HTML, CSS, JS and a backend language with a database. 2. Even if you learn basics of these, you proceed to see online tutorials. When I started angular was all the rage. Midway through learning angular, facebook released react. As a beginner you get pretty much carried away by blog posts which go on praising the new tech. 3. Es6 comes in the…

4. gulp/grunt is history already! webpack is the new hotness.

It's crazy how fast the things move in js world.

Re: Ask HN: For beginners: what is the hardest part while learning web dev?

#32

I think that a majority of "beginnner" tutorials miss the point. They start with the actual HTML/CSS right away. Heck, some even start with jquery as part of a beginning course. I really believe in learning the "why" of something and not just the "what" or "how". For example, if you really want to learn web dev, you have to learn to some extent how the internet works, what are the various protocols for web (http vs f…

I think going front to back is valid too.

Restyling wordpress yields usable results qiuckly, which is great for motivation. And motivation might be the most important things if you learn it by yourself. It's just important to take your time when encountering issues related to things below.

In general there is a fine line in programming: going as high level as possible only gets you in to trouble when things go wrong or need optimization, but you often don't have to know much more than one level down and a few basics to make better guesses about errors.

Re: Ask HN: For beginners: what is the hardest part while learning web dev?

#33
post #26

These are all the things that made full stack webdev overwhelming for me: 1. HTML, CSS, JS and a backend language with a database. 2. Even if you learn basics of these, you proceed to see online tutorials. When I started angular was all the rage. Midway through learning angular, facebook released react. As a beginner you get pretty much carried away by blog posts which go on praising the new tech. 3. Es6 comes in the…

4. gulp/grunt is history already! webpack is the new hotness. It's crazy how fast the things move in js world.

The good thing is that nobody is forced to use all that stuff. You can write plain ES5 and plain CSS and it will work in most browsers out-there.

Re: Ask HN: For beginners: what is the hardest part while learning web dev?

#34
The hardest part, for me, is knowing how to 'get a job' as a web dev. It seems like thats something no one ever talks about, and rarely do I see any information for. The reality is that you need to have some worth to a company, and that is in your skills and ability to improve your skills. Thing is, how do you prove that? Just because you make some app in React doesn't mean you're now an experienced React developer that can solve complex problems with it. Just because you make some web apps doesn't mean that you know the proper technologies to work with in other projects. It takes a lot of time and effort to learn things, and there are plenty of companies that aren't there to pay you to learn a whole bunch of new things unless overall you have a lot of experience.

I look at job postings all the time, and I don't feel I can honestly say: "Yeah, I can do that". I could learn to do what they need, or maybe the circumstances of the employment may cause me to be useless in its duration. There just doesn't seem to be a way to know what you're going to be working with until you just jump ship into it, and if you fail, well, nobody talks about that, and thats legitimately scary to me.

Sometimes I feel its not real, like the people who get 'real' jobs with this stuff can either just fake it and get lucky, or are simply better. It sucks, because I know I've made some cool things and can make much better things. It sucks even more because there's a limit to how much time you can spend working towards a complex career goal like software development before you just end up working a retail job full time to survive.

So, yeah, that parts difficult.

Re: Ask HN: For beginners: what is the hardest part while learning web dev?

#35
This isn't as much of a problem today, but when I was beginning ('97-'98) the hardest part was learning to completely ignore most "vendor" platforms (especially the big content management systems like Vignette StoryServer).

Other than that, the need to learn five sets of semantics/syntax in parallel (HTML, CSS, JS, (Python|Perl|PHP), template language) with constant context switching was quite difficult as well. I lucked out in that the server-side tech I chose (Python & Zope) at least let me ignore SQL for a while, and I was able to minimize the amount of JS I used until jQuery came along to make front-end coding suck a lot less.

Re: Ask HN: For beginners: what is the hardest part while learning web dev?

#36
The hardest part what I think is that we are surrounded by numerous web frameworks which makes it difficult to choose one of them. It may be due to the scope of the framework, community support and learning curve. I am a JavaScript Developer and I too find it hard sometimes to move ahead due to the design paradigms (both frontend and backend), database drivers (MongoDB my fav), community support for the project. It doesn't end here but we also feel that our project or a small app that we make might be neglected because the stack which we used while developing it was too much flexible or was easy to implement.

A solution to this can be making your development stack more and more compact according to the current needs and choosing a open source project or framework to work on which offers good community support and has a future scope.

Re: Ask HN: For beginners: what is the hardest part while learning web dev?

#37
In my opinion, it's the sheer amount of options available. It's overwhelming.

First of all, the tooling. Should I use NPM, Bower, Gulp, Grunt, Webpack or something else?

What text editor should I use? Visual Studio code? Sublime? Vim? Emacs? Something else?

What Javascript framework should I use? React? Angular.js? Angular2? Vue.js? Do everything with jQuery? Something else?

What CSS framework should I use? Bootstrap? Semantic UI? Material Design? Something else?

Should I just use ordinary CSS? SASS? LESS? Something else?

Should I use plain Javascript? Typescript? Dart? Something else?

All of the above have a learning curve (which means spending your valuable time learning the specifics of each choice). And no matter which combination you choose, somebody will come along and tell you that you have made all of the wrong decisions and should start again with X, Y and Z instead, which is incredibly frustrating when you just want to build something.

I've learned that, if you have learned X and are using it to build something, and somebody comes along and says, What are you using X for, everybody is using Y now, X is dead, you just need to have enough backbone to say, X works for me, I know it inside out and I can use it to build a mean product, go away.

It reminds me of the old but still relevant Joel Spolsky blog post, Fire and Motion[0].

[0] - https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/01/06/fire-and-motion/

Re: Ask HN: For beginners: what is the hardest part while learning web dev?

#38
post #25

I graduated as a mechanical engineer and tried to make the switch to web dev but I got caught up in not really knowing what to learn to get an actual job. For instance, I'm a natural at CSS, came as a no brainer, but all places want you to know less and then it was sass and then it was one of those along with gulp and then grunt, and then everybody became crazy about mom and then webpack. This is why I gave up and mo…

May I ask why one would want to switch from a well respected engineering profession to one which literally kids can do? Outside of the HN bubble where there's lots of VC-funded Internet startup employees, webdev is a joke, and I think you see why now.

Not OP but my speculation (as someone with a EEE degree) is that well respected engineering jobs can be very dull. Webdev can feel liberating as there are no set in stone methods by which to complete something and trying new approaches is actively encouraged as the consequences of getting something wrong tend to be pretty low (expect where finance is involved)

Re: Ask HN: For beginners: what is the hardest part while learning web dev?

#39
1. Code tutorial websites teach mostly syntax but are weaker when it comes to teaching you how to set up an environment and structure a new environment. As such, it's useful to look at other people's code on github or similar. Websites and web applications are only partially about the code your write; they are also about the system on which they are built. Learn what it means to "deploy" a website and how that works. Even though some will argue that that's more of an operations concern, as a web developer you often have to wear multiple hats, including operations and server management.

2. With languages like javascript, especially for those with no programming experience, it's really easy to get your feet wet and believe that you "get it", that you "know javascript". That's a fallacy. Javascript, perhaps more than other languages I know, is easy to stitch together to get working (quick and dirty) but really tricky to write eloquently in a way that follows core software development principles and in a way that is easy to manage in the long term (which is part of the reason that there are so many JS frameworks out there).

3. Accept that there are things that you just don't know (and things that you don't know you don't know) and dedicate time to learning from others; not just as you get started, but forever. We spend time on our team every day sharing even the smallest things that we've learned that week to promote this idea (even things like "I discovered the `git add -p` command and here's what it does!").

Re: Ask HN: For beginners: what is the hardest part while learning web dev?

#40

1. Code tutorial websites teach mostly syntax but are weaker when it comes to teaching you how to set up an environment and structure a new environment. As such, it's useful to look at other people's code on github or similar. Websites and web applications are only partially about the code your write; they are also about the system on which they are built. Learn what it means to "deploy" a website and how that works.…

Amen, coding is a never ending study. Always new things. do do do do doooo. I'm coding it.
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