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US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

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Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#31

Post by toss1941 »

sverige wrote: post #28
3131s wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody said Russia rigged the election. Obama and Josh Earnest have not gone as far as using the word "rigged" but they have essentially implied as much. Other large media outlets have done the same and yes, some have used the word "rigged" directly [1] (and if I dug through CNN / MSNBC / ABC reels I am positive I could find many more examples). Lesser known media outlets and internet commentators have been using t…

The most ironic part of the Clinton camp using the term "rigged" is that the original use of the term was by Bernie Sanders against Clinton during the primaries. His claims were proved by the emails that were released by Wikileaks. But somehow this has become a discussion of whether the Russians were behind it, rather than the uncontested content of the emails showing the Clinton campaign's malfeasance. It has also m…

Classic distraction strategy. It's sad watching people on facebook/twitter even believe one word from the White House and the MSM about Russian hacking. Putin isn't a nice person, but even so the facts simply don't support the government's claims. If you ask me, they went with the Russian angle because of how ruthless Putin seems to be, and they thought it would be easy to sell. It was with a lot of people, it seems, that or they were all too eager to believe a lie.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#32

Post by [deleted] »

knz wrote: post #27
Gustomaximus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me the ongoing 'Russia rigged elections' smells like propaganda from the other side. And maybe russia did release the DNC emails, but Assange said that wasn't the case and I feel he's more likely to be telling the truth than state players. And even if they did release these emails it's hardly rigging an election. Comneys email announcement at the 11th hour about reopening email investigation was probably a decidin…

This is too sinple. Russia is actively pushing an agenda as well - the invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea were not a response to US/NATO aggression. A new cold war has also been pushed domestically for the political benefit of Putin et al. If Trump had done basic things like released his tax returns (to show no massive conflict of interest with Russian loans etc) or stopped praising Putin on a regular basis…

[deleted]

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#33

Post by ptaipale »

shard972 wrote: post #24
Isinlor wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You don't understand, George, that Ukraine is not even a state. What is Ukraine? Part of its territories is Eastern Europe, but the greater part is a gift from us." Said by Putin in 2008, Boekarest -> 2014, Crimea annexation and Ukraine in war. Polish president in 2008 was saying "Today Gorgia, tomorrow Ukraine, the day after Baltic States and then maybe even Poland". He died in Russia in airplane accident in 2010 w…

> If you want to see what happens when a person like Putin starts to say that the last peace agreements are bad and borders need to be changed then look at the second world war and the Polish history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement So is that a fear in Poland? That peace with russia would involve handing over parts of your country to Russia?

More likely that a war with or annexation by Russia would begin by handing over parts of your country to Russia.

Which is largely how World War II started in Europe: Stalin and Hitler agreed on a partition of the lands in between, and together started a war to implement that agreement, so that their armies could shake hands in the middle of Poland.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#34

Post by knz »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #21
3131s wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody said Russia rigged the election. Obama and Josh Earnest have not gone as far as using the word "rigged" but they have essentially implied as much. Other large media outlets have done the same and yes, some have used the word "rigged" directly [1] (and if I dug through CNN / MSNBC / ABC reels I am positive I could find many more examples). Lesser known media outlets and internet commentators have been using t…

As a non-American, the long history of the US meddling in elections may make the claims hypocritical, but it makes me very open to suggestions that Russia would do it too.

Are you European by chance? If so, don't worry, your country also likely has a long history of meddling on local affairs either through colonialism or parts of the cold war, especially if you are British!

Yes, the US has meddled in international affairs but let's not pretend that US is unique in doing so or that Russia is some benign country that has no history of actively working against the interests of Europe/US/NATO or that Russia doesn't have its own agenda.

For all of the faults of the US/Europe I'm glad I grew up in the "west" rather than behind the Iron curtain. I also don't see millions of people who fled western nations to Russian states - the single direction of political and economic migrants over the last 70 years speaks for itself.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#35

Post by ZoeZoeBee »

knz wrote: post #27
Gustomaximus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me the ongoing 'Russia rigged elections' smells like propaganda from the other side. And maybe russia did release the DNC emails, but Assange said that wasn't the case and I feel he's more likely to be telling the truth than state players. And even if they did release these emails it's hardly rigging an election. Comneys email announcement at the 11th hour about reopening email investigation was probably a decidin…

This is too sinple. Russia is actively pushing an agenda as well - the invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea were not a response to US/NATO aggression. A new cold war has also been pushed domestically for the political benefit of Putin et al. If Trump had done basic things like released his tax returns (to show no massive conflict of interest with Russian loans etc) or stopped praising Putin on a regular basis…

The invasion of Crimea was a direct response to US/NATO aggression.

1) The US helped plot to overthrow the Ukranian government in 2014.

2) Russia was not keen on NATO pushing for Ukraine to become a member, which would literally put the Russians major warm naval port under NATO hands.

3) Crimea has been a part of Russia for centuries, the only reason Crimea became a part of Ukraine after the breakup of the Soviet Union is because the SSR transferred Crimea from the Russian state to the Ukraine state in 1954 to celebrate the 300th Anniversary of the Ukraine as part of Russia.

4) The vast majority of the population of Crimea has been for hundreds of years of Russian ethnicity and language.

5) Crimea voted to rejoin Russia

The State of Politics are much deeper than you seem to admit.

Edit: Russia's support for Syria has more to do with the strategic location of Syria and the transportation of Russia's Natural Resources through that territory.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#36

Post by dijit »

knz wrote: post #27
Gustomaximus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me the ongoing 'Russia rigged elections' smells like propaganda from the other side. And maybe russia did release the DNC emails, but Assange said that wasn't the case and I feel he's more likely to be telling the truth than state players. And even if they did release these emails it's hardly rigging an election. Comneys email announcement at the 11th hour about reopening email investigation was probably a decidin…

This is too sinple. Russia is actively pushing an agenda as well - the invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea were not a response to US/NATO aggression. A new cold war has also been pushed domestically for the political benefit of Putin et al. If Trump had done basic things like released his tax returns (to show no massive conflict of interest with Russian loans etc) or stopped praising Putin on a regular basis…

It's a weird game of cat and mouse you describe but lets be clear, the annexation of Crimea, was, in Russias eyes a direct counter to the US backed revolution in Ukraine.

The US has wanted Ukraine in NATO for as long as I've been alive if not longer, having forces on the front door of Russia along the European border is something they deeply desire.. US Government's Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs even admitted to pouring billions into the effort.[0]

So lets not pretend that the US government is in a morally unquestionable position either.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2fYcHLouXY

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#37

Post by dijit »

knz wrote: post #34
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-American, the long history of the US meddling in elections may make the claims hypocritical, but it makes me very open to suggestions that Russia would do it too.

Are you European by chance? If so, don't worry, your country also likely has a long history of meddling on local affairs either through colonialism or parts of the cold war, especially if you are British! Yes, the US has meddled in international affairs but let's not pretend that US is unique in doing so or that Russia is some benign country that has no history of actively working against the interests of Europe/US/N…

"But they did it, it's ok"

please, are you going to use that argument to bring back slavery? trite and baseless.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#38

Post by knz »

ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #35
knz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is too sinple. Russia is actively pushing an agenda as well - the invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea were not a response to US/NATO aggression. A new cold war has also been pushed domestically for the political benefit of Putin et al. If Trump had done basic things like released his tax returns (to show no massive conflict of interest with Russian loans etc) or stopped praising Putin on a regular basis…

The invasion of Crimea was a direct response to US/NATO aggression. 1) The US helped plot to overthrow the Ukranian government in 2014. 2) Russia was not keen on NATO pushing for Ukraine to become a member, which would literally put the Russians major warm naval port under NATO hands. 3) Crimea has been a part of Russia for centuries, the only reason Crimea became a part of Ukraine after the breakup of the Soviet Uni…

Is there any credible evidence that the US/NATO was behind a coup in Ukraine? Google doesn't reveal anything substantial.

Ukraine is/was a sovereign nation. Why should Russia stop them from joining NATO if that is what they want? The invasion of their country seems to suggest that a desire for NATO protection was warranted?

Annexing another sovereign nation based upon historical claims and access to a military port is blatant aggression and a return to the cold war mentality (sending unmarked military units over the border? Supplying arms and equipment?).

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#39

Post by knz »

dijit wrote: post #37
knz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you European by chance? If so, don't worry, your country also likely has a long history of meddling on local affairs either through colonialism or parts of the cold war, especially if you are British! Yes, the US has meddled in international affairs but let's not pretend that US is unique in doing so or that Russia is some benign country that has no history of actively working against the interests of Europe/US/N…

"But they did it, it's ok" please, are you going to use that argument to bring back slavery? trite and baseless.

Who said anything about slavery? We are talking about meddling in the political affairs of other countries and espionage. That's been going on ever since lines were drawn on a map.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#40

Post by dijit »

knz wrote: post #39
dijit wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But they did it, it's ok" please, are you going to use that argument to bring back slavery? trite and baseless.

Who said anything about slavery? We are talking about meddling in the political affairs of other countries and espionage. That's been going on ever since lines were drawn on a map.

Correct, your defence of the US Govt's meddling was "but Europeans did it"

Which is an absolutely incorrigible position.

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