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On the existence of two states in liquid water [pdf]

polymer.bu.edu

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Re: On the existence of two states in liquid water [pdf]

#31
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but just what are those states? I see no explicit hypotheses. The clearest hint that I see is that the calculated dipole moment is 2.3 Ds at 0–60°C, "which is close to the value for ice", and 1.8 Ds at 60–100°C, "which is comparable to that reported for the vapour phase". Lower dipole moment means weaker hydrogen bonding, and less tetrahedral structure.

> Lower dipole moment means weaker hydrogen bonding Wouldn't weaker hydrogen bounding imply on much lower surface tension? There is some smaller tension, but the trend is really tiny.

Well, all of the reported differences are small changes in temperature dependence. Water is a strange thing. But for the strong hydrogen bonding, it would be a gas at ambient temperatures. Consider methane and ammonia, for example.

So I don't think that they've found a new phase of water. Rather, as the title states, they argue that liquid water is a mixture of two states, one ice-like with strong hydrogen bonding and tetrahedral structure, and the other more disordered, gas-like, with weaker hydrogen bonding. It's just that there's something like a figure/ground transition at 50-60°C. Going from islands of "gas-like" structure in a sea of "ice-like" structure, to islands of "ice-like" structure in a sea of "gas-like" structure.

Re: On the existence of two states in liquid water [pdf]

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the conclusion probably says it all? "In conclusion, a review of the physical properties of water in the 0–100°C temperature range reveals a bilinear behaviour that defines a crossover temperature at 50 ± 10°C. This observation supports the hypothesis that there are two states of liquid water. We find that these two states play an important role in the thermal and optical properties of nanomedical systems. Finally, o…

I wonder if this is related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpemba_effect

Unlikely, see "When does hot water freeze faster then cold water? A search for the Mpemba effect" by James D. Brownridge: https://arxiv.org/abs/1003.3185

Re: On the existence of two states in liquid water [pdf]

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is hardly any life on earth for which these temperatures (upwards of 45C) play a role, and consequently, any effect on proteins would be 'out of context' It makes me wonder what the pressure dependence is for this phase change. http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/water_phase_diagram.html Pressures inside a particular piece of cellular machinery can be much higher than 0.1 MPa (1 bar).

There's nothing on the article about thermal expansion and heat coefficient. So I'm assuming in both states they are the same. If so, there is really no reason to expect this state change to be much affected by pressure. There also seems to be no latent heat absorbing¹, and from the widely varying changing temperature, I imagine both states coexist on those ~20°C. Water is really weird. 1 - Otherwise people would hav…

I just realized you're forgetting a huge class of life -- soil organisms. Compost heaps contain the most diversity of life when "cooked" between 55C and 65C.
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