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Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

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Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#31

Post by jacquesm »

pg wrote: post #25
jacquesm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe that a programmer of your caliber would make it seem as though an off-site submission is such a big deal that it would take away significant time from working on the quality of the submissions and comments. I'm not 1% the programmer that you are and it wouldn't take me more than 15 minutes to put a search box (after all, it's just a piece of static text) in the HN footer. See, all those 'qua…

What you don't get is that attention is a zero sum game. There are an infinite number of minor things that would be pretty good to do that would "just take a minute." The only way to do good work is to ruthlessly blow them off and to focus only on the few things that matter most. Ironically, this thread, though a complete bike-shed waste of time in itself, is not entirely bad, because it's also causing me to spend ti…

Found using searchyc.com:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=740983

(google doesn't work well when you search for words in the UI of HN)

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#32

Post by kimfuh »

pg wrote: post #2

The explanation is a lot less involved than your question: what makes users happy is not features, but the quality of the submissions and comments. So I focus on the latter instead of the former. The result is a spartan site with good content. There's a YC funded startup that may solve the problem. If they do I'll use them. But frankly the issue is not at the top of my list. This is a classic example of how one shoul…

I like not having a search option. It keeps me learning things at random. It keeps the site simple and constantly fresh.

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#33

Post by chengmi »

jacquesm wrote: post #22
pg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I wouldn't add a link to SearchYC is the same that I don't add a link to one of the HN iPhone apps: I don't know the authors or the app well enough to anoint it as official. I don't mind if people want to build stuff on top of HN, but I have a much higher threshold for making something part of HN.

Searchyc is at least as reliable if not more reliable than HN, I think you'd be in pretty good hands there. In all the time that I've been using it I think I've seen it down only twice, HN over the same period numerous times.

HN handles considerably more traffic than SearchYC.

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#34

Post by akkartik »

jacquesm wrote: post #29
akkartik wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I thought you really wanted a vote. It just seemed like the simplest way to hack it. It seems pointless to say why: the reasons are obvious, and stating them is not getting you anywhere. Why is a whole bunch of people showing that they want search not a compelling 'why'? Even if popularity contests aren't the best decision, the results of a vote in a small community seems like a reasonable signal to want. 'Wh…

A vote would have been fine with me, but PG is well within his rights as the owner of the site to ignore the outcome. To ask people to downvote or upvote others is really bad form here.

Course he'll ignore it. You think I wasn't aware of that?

"To ask people to downvote or upvote others is really bad form here."

Apparently. I can't argue with that. Thanks for the tip.

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#35

Post by jacquesm »

kimfuh wrote: post #32
pg wrote: post #2

The explanation is a lot less involved than your question: what makes users happy is not features, but the quality of the submissions and comments. So I focus on the latter instead of the former. The result is a spartan site with good content. There's a YC funded startup that may solve the problem. If they do I'll use them. But frankly the issue is not at the top of my list. This is a classic example of how one shoul…

I like not having a search option. It keeps me learning things at random. It keeps the site simple and constantly fresh.

Do you use the web the same way ?

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#37

Post by apgwoz »

kevindication wrote: post #10
baddox wrote: post #7

In all honesty, I have never even noticed that HN didn't have search. Coming from reddit, I'm used to googling with "site:" and I've always done that with HN as well. My point is that HN does not need search.

I think you mostly want search when you decide to submit a link. Since you don't want to submit a duplicate article, you have to check searchyc first.

If you submit a duplicate link, it counts as an upvote. That is assuming the url is exactly the same.

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#38

Post by jacquesm »

chengmi wrote: post #33
jacquesm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Searchyc is at least as reliable if not more reliable than HN, I think you'd be in pretty good hands there. In all the time that I've been using it I think I've seen it down only twice, HN over the same period numerous times.

HN handles considerably more traffic than SearchYC.

Well, that's a difficult one: Either PG is right and nobody needs search, then we'll find it doesn't matter, or I'm right and we do need search and then the searchyc guys will need to beef up their system.

But then at least we do know for sure we need that search.

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#39

Post by DanielBMarkham »

pg wrote: post #25
jacquesm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe that a programmer of your caliber would make it seem as though an off-site submission is such a big deal that it would take away significant time from working on the quality of the submissions and comments. I'm not 1% the programmer that you are and it wouldn't take me more than 15 minutes to put a search box (after all, it's just a piece of static text) in the HN footer. See, all those 'qua…

What you don't get is that attention is a zero sum game. There are an infinite number of minor things that would be pretty good to do that would "just take a minute." The only way to do good work is to ruthlessly blow them off and to focus only on the few things that matter most. Ironically, this thread, though a complete bike-shed waste of time in itself, is not entirely bad, because it's also causing me to spend ti…

Apologies for the frankness. I keep trying diplomacy but I suck at it.

A less informed person might think that since you got your clock cleaned by popular vote, you seem much more inclined to discount popular vote than you did a month ago.

I have lost much of my admiration for HN. But I have an awesome appreciation of what you think is important to spend your time on. I have to admit I am mostly wrong and I am still trying to learn as much as I can from you, but why the hell do you think here that Jacques is giving you a bad requirement for your site? You sound pompous and disconnected.

EDIT: And am I to understand you monitor the voting records on HN? That sounded crazy, but I just heard it via email. The internet is crazy. Can't be true.

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#40

Post by jacquesm »

apgwoz wrote: post #37
kevindication wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mostly want search when you decide to submit a link. Since you don't want to submit a duplicate article, you have to check searchyc first.

If you submit a duplicate link, it counts as an upvote. That is assuming the url is exactly the same.

Plenty of times though, the same subject will pop out in a number of different locations, searching before posting helps a lot in avoiding getting the same content on the homepage twice.
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