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US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

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Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#261
post #51
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to the original 1992 food pyramid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_pyramid_(nutrition)#/medi... > Fats, oils, sweets: sparingly > Bread, cereal, rice & pasta: 6-11 servings Yes I am in the camp that believe fats and proteins are both much healthier than carbs, and especially refined sugars. The latest nutrition supports low carb diets, as can be seen with Atkins and Keto diets.

> The latest nutrition supports low carb diets The "latest nutrition" supports nothing of the sort. Dietitians still recommend you get roughly 50% of your calories from healthy carbs. Source: my wife is a registered dietitian and has a PhD in nutrition.

When people say "the latest nutrition" they mean "the latest broscience I read on reddit."

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't murder survival of the fittest? We as a society have decided that, generally, profiting from causing harm to others incentives bad things. I don't want cough medicine that might stop my breathing, but heroin was regularly sold as just that before the FDA. History has shown that without regulation the quality, efficacy, composition, safety and side-effect profile of drugs might stray from reality because of mark…

> Isn't murder survival of the fittest? Murder is bad for society, as people who can benefit society through say their knowledge of medicine or physics aren't adept at self defence. A similar argument could be made that people who aren't very good at taking care of themselves are valuable to society somehow and should be protected from idiotic self-harm but I believe a person's autonomy trumps society's interest in p…

> Heroin was sold as cough medicine that might stop your breathing? If it tells you you might die and you choose to ingest it, that's on you. If you choose to play Russian Roulette, nobody's stopping you.

Yes, heroin was sold as children's cough medicine by Bayer [1]. It stops coughing because it slows breathing. Take enough and you stop breathing, then die. This how 30k+ Americans die from (non-)prescription opioid overdoses each year.

No, it did not indicate that it could harm or kill you. Why? Because regulations didn't exist that mandated purchasers were informed of all potential side-effects. Regulations didn't exist that mandated testing to determine those side-effects or the safety profile.

> In case it wasn't sold with a warning that it might stop your breathing, you could have chosen to verify that it did what you expected before ingesting it.

It does exactly what it says: stops coughing. You might be able to take 10 bottles over time, but the next time you dose from the 11th bottle, you don't wake up. It could be a multitude of reasons: lack of quality assurance means different batches have different concentrations of the active ingredient, your tolerance for heroin lowered after disuse and you take the same dose you're used to taking and die, what's in the bottle isn't the product you thought it was or you happened to have a drink of alcohol before taking it and overdose from a normal dose. These are the same problems heroin users face in the unregulated black market for drugs. How does "verifying that it did what you expected" help in any of those cases? Why offload the responsibility to ensure a product's safety, side-effect profile and drug interactions on the user when it could just as easily be done at the source by knowledged professionals and save laymen lives from being needlessly ruined?

How does one verify the medicine they bought does what they expected and not give them cancer in a couple of years?

Also, this is a children's medicine. They aren't consenting adults. How can you suggest in good faith that a child verifies the medicine they're given by a doctor, parent, nanny, babysitter, teacher or friend does exactly what it should? What if they're old enough to buy it themselves, but still a minor with underdeveloped decision making processes? What if the child finds the medication? Child proof packaging and bottling exist because of regulation.

But here's the thing:

> History has shown that without regulation the quality, efficacy, composition, safety and side-effect profile of drugs might stray from reality because of market incentives. The unfortunate truth is that sometimes it is more profitable if those five things are ignored and people get hurt or die. Hence, regulation.

With or without regulation, you will have a market of desperate people who need treatment so that they don't end up in pain, injured or dead. Snake oil salesmen took advantage of this. The world doesn't need a Pfizer that, instead of making the investment to develop drugs that treat diseases, pushes a variety of unproven harmful cures because it is immediately profitable to do so. Before you say the market will ensure that drugs are safe, effective, etc: this wasn't the case at all until the FDA. The market didn't incentivize these things and we all suffered for it.

Later we got dextromethorphan: technically an opioid and morphine derivative, like heroin, that suppresses a cough but doesn't completely stop breathing at any dose.

Heroin is cheaper to produce. The market would decide that a certain number of dead children are acceptable because people will buy the cheaper, deadlier medication. Unknowingly, because they lack the necessary information to make an informed decision due to the lack of regulation. The type of information needed for a market to function.

They might not even have the option of purchasing DXM, as it was developed by the government as an non-addictive alternative to codeine. Years later it was brought to market as an antitussive because the market was lacking cough suppressants. The market was lacking because the FDA banned morphine and heroin as OTC cough suppressants.

>They may be regulated but any adult can still choose to partake of however much they like regardless of the damage to their health.

Anyone that purchases cigarettes in America is not purchasing the cigarettes Philip Morris et al want to be selling in their ideal world. Cigarette composition, manufacturing, marketing and price are all heavily regulated by decades of legislation in response to more toxic, addictive cigarettes being introduced and the advertising campaigns behind them.

Without regulation, cigarettes would be more toxic and deadly; and they would cause more damage to someone's health.

[1] http://www.businessinsider.com/yes-bayer-promoted-heroin-for...

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#263

Here is my paraphrased takeaway: Cholesterol you see in your blood results is still bad. Whole milk, butter, and fatty meats is still bad. Foods like eggs, shrimp, and lobster might be good. I don't think this changes any of my mental models. The foods that I always thought of as "probably not great" are still classified as such, according to this article.

Dietary cholesterol is now suspected to be essentially irrelevant to health. We know this because, among other things, some people eat diets with 10-100x as much cholesterol as some other people, and they don't immediately develop heart disease.

Blood cholesterol, on the other hand, seems to be essentially a thing the body does while storing excess quantities of fat. The obese will usually have high blood cholesterol, the non-obese will usually not have high blood cholesterol... whether they're on a zero-fat zero-cholesterol diet or not.

So basically, they're two different things: Long-term, blood cholesterol is mostly created endogenously independent of diet, and dietary cholesterol does not convert to blood cholesterol.

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#264
post #176
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. Typical carb intake in avg diet that doesn't remove grains and starches is literally worse for you than pure eating pure fat. Read about keto diet, read / watch presentations by Gary Taubes (his book "Why We Get Fat" is great). Your understanding of nutrition is about 20 years out of date.

> I'm sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. Please edit personal swipes out of your comments here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

please take your life somewhere else.

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Keto diet doesn't seem the most environmentally friendly choice http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306919211...

The results are inaccessible from that link. So I can't tell how hard it is to compensate by reducing greenhouse emissions elsewhere. Also, it's a study about plants vs. animals, mostly focusing on protein. That's not the same thing as an analysis of the cost of a mixed protein/fat diet, sourced from either plant or animal.

Can you describe how a vegetarian keto diet would look like?

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The results are inaccessible from that link. So I can't tell how hard it is to compensate by reducing greenhouse emissions elsewhere. Also, it's a study about plants vs. animals, mostly focusing on protein. That's not the same thing as an analysis of the cost of a mixed protein/fat diet, sourced from either plant or animal.

Can you describe how a vegetarian keto diet would look like?

https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo/ seems to have plenty.

And you can process plants to remove carbs, depending on your goals.

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#267
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about your assertion of 'overly' regulating things leading to a net negative effect. Are there specific examples you're considering?

Marijuana would be the most obvious example.

Sorry to reply so late. I think we would do well to separate concerns about recreational drugs from the FDA's regulation of pharmaceuticals. I totally agree that our regulation of marijuana (when compared to similar substances like cigarettes) has been problematic.

Are there examples of pharmaceuticals you were considering?

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you describe how a vegetarian keto diet would look like?

https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo/ seems to have plenty. And you can process plants to remove carbs, depending on your goals.

Oh, awesome. If you are a curious person, it feels good when someone proves you wrong; now I have a whole lot of new things to look into :-)

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#269
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marijuana would be the most obvious example.

Sorry to reply so late. I think we would do well to separate concerns about recreational drugs from the FDA's regulation of pharmaceuticals. I totally agree that our regulation of marijuana (when compared to similar substances like cigarettes) has been problematic. Are there examples of pharmaceuticals you were considering?

I meant medical marijuana.
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