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The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore

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Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore

#281

Post by ghaff »

msabalau wrote: post #278
ghaff wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand your comment. Public schools in dense cities tend to be almost universally bad--in spite of often being funded at significantly higher per-student levels than even relatively tony suburbs that have high-performing schools. If you look at Massachusetts public high schools for example, the one public high school in Cambridge (where housing has gotten very expensive) has some of the highest per…

Unlike the suburbs you valorize, Cambridge hasn't shut out the poor, makes large investments in public housing. 45% of Cambridge students take free or subsided lunches. What the MCAS results actually show is when we take kids of out wealth segregated neighborhood elementary and middle schools, and put them into a single, unified high school, test score rise dramatically. If Concord schools had to take any number of f…

You might try reading sometime. It's a useful skill. I wasn't valorizing anything. I was responding to a comment that didn't understand why denser city schools could cost more per pupil than suburban schools.

Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore

#282

Post by nilved »

rublev wrote: post #18
Clubber wrote: post #5

Strange, I'm middle class and I live in a city. There are other cities than NYC, SF, LA and Boston.

What about places like Canada? Where your only real options are Toronto and Vancouver. Other places are lonely and small. Personally I'm into music. Composing, playing shows, going to the symphony, the opera, the ballet. Sure, I could leave Toronto, except now I'm in the middle of nowhere where there are no jobs and no culture. Now what? I'm sure it's similar for others in the US.

Just stay out of Canada, to be honest. Our country's best is anothers country's worst.

Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore

#283

Post by nommm-nommm »

1_2__3 wrote: post #19
cddotdotslash wrote: post #17

This article fails to mention that the middle class can't afford to live in the "nicest parts" of cities, but many cities have other areas as well. Take NYC for example. Sure, if you want to live in the Chelsea or West Village neighborhoods in Manhattan, it's going to cost you. But there are tons of available houses in Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx that are plenty affordable. The other day I saw a house for sale in…

Link to that Queens listing? Or one like it? Not that I don't believe you but... I kind of don't believe you.

Quick search for recently sold houses

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/11730-170th-St-Jamaica-NY-...

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/332-Beach-89th-St-Rockaway...

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17349-103rd-Rd-Jamaica-NY-...

Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore

#284

Post by rukittenme »

The people who write these articles almost always live in California or New York City. I just have to laugh.

Move to any major Texan city, any major Floridian city -- really any city in "The South" -- and the situation is much different. There are tons of great properties for unsubsidized, lower class purchasers. Seriously, zillow downtown Nashville TN. You can find great deals for the poorest amongst us.

People in (sorry to say) liberal cities have such warped, contradictory views of housing that it blows my mind. "We need more transport, we need more subsidies, we need X!" No, what you need to do is to let go. Let housing take care of itself. All of these schemes have contributed and will continue to contribute to the eviction of the middle and working class tenants.

Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore

#285

Post by abalashov »

rukittenme wrote: post #284

The people who write these articles almost always live in California or New York City. I just have to laugh. Move to any major Texan city, any major Floridian city -- really any city in "The South" -- and the situation is much different. There are tons of great properties for unsubsidized, lower class purchasers. Seriously, zillow downtown Nashville TN. You can find great deals for the poorest amongst us. People in (…

That may be, but first-class cities concentrate a lot more of the most desirable economic opportunities. Living in the Silicon Valley and SF area would be completely irrational on all grounds, except for the fact that you're within driving distance of 900 of the world's top 1000 technology employers (figurative example, I wouldn't have an exact count). Similar arguments can be made for entertainment, music and film in LA, and for finance, fashion and media in NYC.

Yeah, Charlotte, Tampa, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Salt Lake City, and Phoenix are a lot cheaper. But that's in large part because they're not SF or NYC. :) First-class cities can literally provide 10x-20x the value for a lot of folks.

I have no dog in this fight; I lived in Atlanta for ten years and now live in a small-medium college town. Being self-employed for a long time now, I have no intention of moving to SF or NYC. But I can certainly see why someone would.

That said, the US has a unique advantage here compared to most of the world, "developed" and otherwise; it is very decentralised economically. In the grand scheme of things here, life in Charlotte just isn't _that_ different from NYC. In many other economies, a sizable chunk of the GDP is parked in the capital and maybe one or two other top-tier cities, and the difference between life there and life anywhere else—anywhere else at all, even another fairly large city—is considerable. In my native USSR—and as I understand it, its descendant Russia—there a huge chasm between "Moscow" and "not Moscow", even though there are dozens of other sizable cities in Russia. The Soviet economy was exceptionally geographically centralised, so makes for a very extreme example, but I think you get my point.

Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore

#286

Post by PerfectElement »

criddell wrote: post #250
1024core wrote: post #151

I live in SF, and am flabbergasted at the number of 1- or 2- floor single-family homes. A city the size of SF (46 sq mi) and population (850K+ and growing) simply can't afford so many SFHs. I was in Barcelona recently (yay NIPS!) and Barcelona is smaller than SF (36 sq mi) and has nearly twice the population! Everywhere you see are 6-floor buildings, with the bottom reserved for shops and people living above them. It…

I have too many hobbies that take space to live in a place like Barcelona. Where do people work on their hobby car or motorcycle? Where do you do woodworking? Where do you keep your boat or paddle board? Do they have gardens? What about an outdoor kitchen for grilling and smoking? Do their kids have bicycles and scooters and skateboards and baseball gear?

Yes, people in Barcelona smoke, grill, have hobbies, bicycles, etc.

Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore

#287

Post by orbitur »

rukittenme wrote: post #284

The people who write these articles almost always live in California or New York City. I just have to laugh. Move to any major Texan city, any major Floridian city -- really any city in "The South" -- and the situation is much different. There are tons of great properties for unsubsidized, lower class purchasers. Seriously, zillow downtown Nashville TN. You can find great deals for the poorest amongst us. People in (…

As a southerner who's moved to a northern city that expanded before cars blew up in the 50s, I gotta say, I can't ever see myself going back until you can feasibly live without a car.

My homecity is now over 600k people, but it's really just a network of highways and avenues/parkways connecting them all. Public transit is underfunded, and only the poorest of the poor use it until they can buy a car. Buying a car is simply a necessity, like a roof over your head.

Maybe the freedom of not being trapped in a car to get anywhere interesting costs more. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore

#288

Post by criddell »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #263
criddell wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have too many hobbies that take space to live in a place like Barcelona. Where do people work on their hobby car or motorcycle? Where do you do woodworking? Where do you keep your boat or paddle board? Do they have gardens? What about an outdoor kitchen for grilling and smoking? Do their kids have bicycles and scooters and skateboards and baseball gear?

Join a club for the sports stuff. There's a few nice sailing clubs in the Bay Area where they keep the boats and the gear there (some have lockers). There are motorcycle garages and storage units for race vehicles, parks, vacation homes, and get-togethers with opportunities to cook outside. Skateboards fit in closets. For wood/metalworking, there's stuff like TechShop. It's not practical to live in a city and have a…

And I live out in the burbs because I want to do all that stuff. My point was that for some of us, suburban life is a great fit.

Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore

#290

Post by criddell »

severine wrote: post #257
criddell wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have too many hobbies that take space to live in a place like Barcelona. Where do people work on their hobby car or motorcycle? Where do you do woodworking? Where do you keep your boat or paddle board? Do they have gardens? What about an outdoor kitchen for grilling and smoking? Do their kids have bicycles and scooters and skateboards and baseball gear?

Seriously, come visit!

I've started watching An Idiot Abroad and I think I share a lot with Pilkington (or at least the character he plays on that show) when it comes to travel. I don't really like to travel. Twenty years ago, I was in to it but now it feels like a phase I grew out of.
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