The cities skew Democratic, but I wonder if increasing urban migration will create more Democrats. Then the Democratic Party has more of an incentive to build more nice-city.
...Might have worked 8 years ago.
The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore
51–60 of 363 posts
Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But there are tons of available houses in Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx that are plenty affordable. The other day I saw a house for sale in a decent part of Queens for $240k - definitely affordable for middle class. Do you have kids? Because this glib reaction signals that you don't, or you'd be aware that the areas you are touting as affordable have terrible public schools. That's why they're relatively cheap. T…
> terrible public schools There are affordable parts of Long Island and Connecticut with great public public schools less than an hour from Manhattan by train. We've grown accustomed to overporting our post-war suburban archetype of what a "middle class" family "deserves," i.e. lots of bedrooms, garages and lawn space, while diminishing previously (and still!) common practices like having roommates when young, not ow…
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Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But there are tons of available houses in Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx that are plenty affordable. The other day I saw a house for sale in a decent part of Queens for $240k - definitely affordable for middle class. Do you have kids? Because this glib reaction signals that you don't, or you'd be aware that the areas you are touting as affordable have terrible public schools. That's why they're relatively cheap. T…
> terrible public schools There are affordable parts of Long Island and Connecticut with great public public schools less than an hour from Manhattan by train. We've grown accustomed to overporting our post-war suburban archetype of what a "middle class" family "deserves," i.e. lots of bedrooms, garages and lawn space, while diminishing previously (and still!) common practices like having roommates when young, not ow…
> There are affordable parts of Long Island and Connecticut with great public public schools less than an hour from Manhattan by train.
Nonsense. I'm a New Yorker. You literally CAN'T get to DOWNTOWN Manhattan from any part of Connecticut in under an hour. The first metro-north stop in CT (Greenwich, which, BTW, is NOT affordable to live near) is over 40 minutes from Grand Central at the best of times. And then you have to change to the subway to get downtown. Nuh-uh. An hour each way is not happening.
I'm not sure what your point was about suburban deserts (in the sense of things deserved,) but the point of the article is that even with things like not owning a car priced in, housing (in cities with jobs) is still unobtanium for people in the hole between section 8 and tech salaries, who didn't already buy their homes when they were cheaper. Editorializing a bit, this sucks in the long-term. The upper east side of manhattan west of park, which was expensive before "gentrification" was a word, shows what this leads to: a limestone-clad desert made of vertical money and not much else.
Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
> terrible public schools There are affordable parts of Long Island and Connecticut with great public public schools less than an hour from Manhattan by train. We've grown accustomed to overporting our post-war suburban archetype of what a "middle class" family "deserves," i.e. lots of bedrooms, garages and lawn space, while diminishing previously (and still!) common practices like having roommates when young, not ow…
Right. People expect to skip straight from 22 or even 18 to a late-20s or early-30s level of "stuff" and general lifestyle, without paying their dues in the middle. It's called a "property ladder" for a reason.
Those 'entry-level' houses are being bought up by idle capital and rented on AirBnB.
Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore
#55This article fails to mention that the middle class can't afford to live in the "nicest parts" of cities, but many cities have other areas as well. Take NYC for example. Sure, if you want to live in the Chelsea or West Village neighborhoods in Manhattan, it's going to cost you. But there are tons of available houses in Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx that are plenty affordable. The other day I saw a house for sale in…
Exactly. There's also plenty of affordable housing stock in Chicago and LA, as long as you don't expect to live on the lake/ocean, don't expect a big suburban house, etc. That's the thing about big cities, there's usually a huge variety of housing at all price points - with a variety of pros and cons for sure, but the lack of housing at a variety of prices is typically not an issue.
> There's also plenty of affordable housing stock in LA...
Hahaha, I suppose if you're willing to live in near skid-row conditions.
Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're going to make a statement like that I'm going to need an example of what you consider middle class, what you consider affordable and what a reasonable square footage is for a family of 4.
Middle class in a small to mid size city is $200k in annual household income. A family of three should have no problem in 1200sqft. Two kids is excessive, but if you do have two kids you'd be fine in 1500sqft.
I downvoted you for the ludicrous statement that middle-class is $200k in household income, especially in a mid-to-small-size city.
Wages have not been keeping up with costs or you might have a point.
Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore
#57The problem could be lessened if NIMBY's would stop trying to dictate how property they don't own should be used (that is, we allow construction) and if we'd stop subsidizing people who can't even marginally afford to live there.
I figure if we'd eliminate the latter, we'd take care of a lot of the former.
In NYC, we have recently seen rents reduce due to new housing supply coming on the market.
Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Middle class in a small to mid size city is $200k in annual household income. A family of three should have no problem in 1200sqft. Two kids is excessive, but if you do have two kids you'd be fine in 1500sqft.
$200k is the 94th percentile of income.
I'd imagine that's less so when you look at popular cities. The parent post wanted an opinion on middle class. My opinion is that middle class incomes in cities is around $200k (or should be if you want to be somewhat comfortable). I see houses all around me in Portland going for $800k, $900k, and $1mm plus. That's certainly much more than what a middle class income could afford. So considering those prices are fairly standard, the middle class income has to be at $200k. Whether that's reality or not the math just doesn't work any other way.
Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore
#59then don't live in cities?
What about those who provide social services to city-dwellers? Teachers, firefighters? It can be problematic to have the police tasked with protecting a city they don't even live in. Next time you see an SFPD officer with a free moment ask him/her what they think of the explosive growth in SoMa.
If they can't afford to live where they work maybe they're under payed?
Re: The Middle Class Can't Afford to Live in Cities Anymore
#60This article fails to mention that the middle class can't afford to live in the "nicest parts" of cities, but many cities have other areas as well. Take NYC for example. Sure, if you want to live in the Chelsea or West Village neighborhoods in Manhattan, it's going to cost you. But there are tons of available houses in Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx that are plenty affordable. The other day I saw a house for sale in…
> But there are tons of available houses in Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx that are plenty affordable. The other day I saw a house for sale in a decent part of Queens for $240k - definitely affordable for middle class. Do you have kids? Because this glib reaction signals that you don't, or you'd be aware that the areas you are touting as affordable have terrible public schools. That's why they're relatively cheap. T…
By and large Manhattan public schools are nothing to write home about either. The same is true of someplace like Cambridge where the high school is ranked pretty far down in state rankings. Public schools in cities are mostly fairly poor by objective measurements, even when they serve very high cost neighborhoods.