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Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

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Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#71

Post by taway_1212 »

jfaucett wrote: post #64
taway_1212 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say it's impossible, it's merely generally harder and for less money. Re: sysadmin and developer roles - my post was mostly about diversity and breadth of available roles. These sysadmin and developer roles are generic enough that one will be fine in them in Europe. A sufficiently specialized researcher, on the other hand, usually has only a handful of places in the entire world that are interested in hiring…

> it's merely generally harder and for less money. My experience has been the opposite in terms of difficulty. In most EU countries the market of software engineers who can also speak the native country's language is really small so its way easier to stand out from the crowd. In the US, you have to compete in a 350 million+ population pool plus global candidates who have studied English their whole lives. In any give…

You can't ignore the demand side of the equation though. US is leading economic and military (which leads to lots of tech as well) superpower and a lot of European countries are relatively backwater in comparison.

For example, in the UK, there's little real tech companies and most developer roles are confined to non-tech support roles in other economy sectors (finance, retail etc.).

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#72

Post by scrollaway »

loxs wrote: post #62
scrollaway wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trying to spread fud? Because everything you said is either plain wrong or made to sound worse than it is. 1. All prices in europe include tax, unlike in the US where it's customary to not include tax in the price and pay it at checkout. Stuff tends to be more expensive not just because of VAT but also because of shipping prices and extra consumer protections such as mandatory 2 year warranties. 2. Just like…

What you say is correct. All things have variations. The Athens flat for 100 euro (though I highly doubt the price you cite) has it's equivalence somewhere in cheap cities of the US I never said that healthcare was "bad", only that it has its problems. Please note that I didn't say that Europe is worse, just that you'll be worse financially, which I didn't see you disproving.

I can cite that price from personal experience :)

You said healthcare is of "questionable quality". Everything has its problems but as far as I'm concerned, healthcare in europe is top notch. You certainly don't hear about "healthcare horror stories" in europe, unlike in the US...

I'm not sure what "worse off financially" even means. It depends. For a long time I was working from home for an international company and earning far more a month than I'd need in a year. Like you said, there are equivalents in the US.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#73

Post by drakonka »

fulafel wrote: post #12
drakonka wrote: post #8

Does the US have a working holiday visa arrangement with Europe? This is how I moved, but I was moving from Australia. Got my Australian citizenship and applied for working holiday visa to Sweden. Visa documentation was emailed to me within a couple of weeks of the application. This allowed me to move with my savings and look for a job on-site. The employer I found then helped me out with the process of applying for…

Many (most?) countries will give you a work visa if you have a job offer, and will let you stay if that turns permanent. It's not tied to the US.

Yes, but I'm not really sure what this has to do with my comment? A Working Holiday visa is not the same as a work visa that you get if you have a job offer. The point of my getting a Working Holiday visa was to move to the country for a substantial amount of time (the visa allows 1 year) and look for work while there instead of trying to convince an employer to hire a junior from overseas.

Most EU countries also have restrictions on the employee visas they grant - such as the position having to be advertised within the country (or maybe within the EU) first with some exceptions for very specialist roles, etc. In addition (speaking only for Sweden here) even afterwards it's not as easy as going to the Migration board and going "Well here's my offer, give me a visa!" - the Migration board checks with the relevant union to vet the offer and make sure conditions of employment are suitable. In addition to that queues can be very long, so having the assistance of a larger company that frequently liaises with both the migration board and the unions when applying for a visa can help fast track the entire process.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#75

Post by hacker_9 »

taway_1212 wrote: post #71
jfaucett wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's merely generally harder and for less money. My experience has been the opposite in terms of difficulty. In most EU countries the market of software engineers who can also speak the native country's language is really small so its way easier to stand out from the crowd. In the US, you have to compete in a 350 million+ population pool plus global candidates who have studied English their whole lives. In any give…

You can't ignore the demand side of the equation though. US is leading economic and military (which leads to lots of tech as well) superpower and a lot of European countries are relatively backwater in comparison. For example, in the UK, there's little real tech companies and most developer roles are confined to non-tech support roles in other economy sectors (finance, retail etc.).

No? I've worked in plenty of software developer roles in the UK, not sure where this is coming from.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#76

Post by 19kuba22 »

kowdermeister wrote: post #14

> what's it like out there comparing to America It's totally different country by country. I never been to the US, but I imagine it's much more homogeneous than the EU. For example you can go to Berlin, Barcelona, Milano, Stockholm or Budapest and you can have radically different experiences. It differs radically financially, demographically and attitude wise. I'd suggest to start with a Euro-trip and visit as many c…

From my experience traveling Europe and America, Europe is much more homogeneous even if languages are different.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#77

Post by drakonka »

neximo64 wrote: post #29
pg314 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lower compensation, but better social security (if you manage to get citizenship), better working hours, more holidays. I second learning the local language. That is one of the most important requirements to truly integrate.

Having gone through the experience myself it depends what you're aiming at. In my opinion, in the tech space in particular the US is a no brainer for the European to move to: If you're aiming at your own startup, Europe is downright awful you control the working hours, holidays and social security. Entrepreneurship is terrible because the culture doesn't adapt well to it. Raising cash is like selling a fridge to eski…

This is really interesting, I wonder if Stockholm is for some reason in its own bubble when it comes to startups in the EU. We have so many (funded) startups forming here it's kind of getting crazy (but in a good way). I mostly only hear about new games companies forming as that's the industry I'm in - quite a few people have recently left larger companies in Stockholm to start their own game dev studios. I guess with time we will know how successful they will be, but at least the process of branching off and starting your own studio here seems quite accessible.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#78

Post by pepon »

19kuba22 wrote: post #76
kowdermeister wrote: post #14

> what's it like out there comparing to America It's totally different country by country. I never been to the US, but I imagine it's much more homogeneous than the EU. For example you can go to Berlin, Barcelona, Milano, Stockholm or Budapest and you can have radically different experiences. It differs radically financially, demographically and attitude wise. I'd suggest to start with a Euro-trip and visit as many c…

From my experience traveling Europe and America, Europe is much more homogeneous even if languages are different.

No way if by America you mean the US.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#79

Post by chvid »

loxs wrote: post #34

Prepare to be much worse financially. You will earn less, pay higher taxes (as percentage) and will feel much poorer. Cars, especially nice ones, are much more expensive (in absolute numbers, not only as percentage of income) to buy and own. Petrol is several times the US price. Rents are higher in most cities (at least compared to income). Maybe only SV is worse compared to Europe. All tech gadgets are more expensiv…

Don't know why you are being downvoted - what you write is in general correct.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#80

Post by deutchyboots »

taway_1212 wrote: post #56
dClauzel wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have a very vauable asset for a tech career - a US Citizenship DAFUQ ? I am a French research in computer science, now working for a company producing and streaming contents on the web. I can assure you that my carrer opportunities — as sysadmin, researcher, or developper — are pretty good in France and in Europe :)

I didn't say it's impossible, it's merely generally harder and for less money. Re: sysadmin and developer roles - my post was mostly about diversity and breadth of available roles. These sysadmin and developer roles are generic enough that one will be fine in them in Europe. A sufficiently specialized researcher, on the other hand, usually has only a handful of places in the entire world that are interested in hiring…

> I see this in a friend of mine. He's a young PhD Machine Learning Researcher with top credentials (Ivy League, top publications, won awards in his field).

There are top-shelf jobs for your friend in Europe. E.g. Google's got large offices in London and Zurich and a quick search shows some possible fits for a PhD in ML. I know from friends that Amazon has a large office in Berlin focused on machine learning research and applications. Microsoft appears to be hiring ML scientists in München.

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