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Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

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Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#61
I can only speak for the countries I know about which are Germany, Poland and France. But generally I think these properties hold across Europe as a whole, at least from collegues or friends from other countries whom I've talked to, this might not be the case though so check it out for yourself. So heres the gist of it.

You will have a much lower standard of living by most monetary measures. Taxes are higher than in the US and regulations/beurocracy is more extensive. Everything is "smaller" from cars, houses, and land to meals. Energy costs - especially transportation costs - are much higher almost everywhere, which forces you to try to keep your energy consumption low compared to how you would live in the US. There is virtually one sport everywhere and its soccer, so facilities/clubs/organizations for any other sport are far behind US standards. For instance, you will not be able to find anything resembling a YMCA where you can workout with weights, play basketball and racketball and go swimming all for some monthly membership. People all live much closer together, so you won't be able to find a place thats even a little "off the grid" this can be good or bad just depends on what you prefer.

On the more positive side, you will have "free" healthcare, but the quality will vary drastically from country to country. In Poland its disastrous for instance whereas in Germany its pretty nice and will cover just about all your health costs and the quality is high as well. France is closer to the Germany side of things but I'd say the overall quality is a bit lower. Also you will rarely if ever work more than 40 hours a week and you'll also get 30 paid vacation days a year from most employers. In Germany, sick days don't count against your vacation days so it all compounds to a pretty big chunk of leisure time. Additionally, there's all kinds of various social welfare programs that will take care of you should you become unemployed or disabled etc. these are extensive and well-funded in Germany and France much less so in Poland.

I'm an expat and have lived/worked in Germany for the past 9 years, basically my entire 20s and working life except for freelance web work I did while getting my undergrad in the US.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#62
post #34

Prepare to be much worse financially. You will earn less, pay higher taxes (as percentage) and will feel much poorer. Cars, especially nice ones, are much more expensive (in absolute numbers, not only as percentage of income) to buy and own. Petrol is several times the US price. Rents are higher in most cities (at least compared to income). Maybe only SV is worse compared to Europe. All tech gadgets are more expensiv…

Are you trying to spread fud? Because everything you said is either plain wrong or made to sound worse than it is. 1. All prices in europe include tax, unlike in the US where it's customary to not include tax in the price and pay it at checkout. Stuff tends to be more expensive not just because of VAT but also because of shipping prices and extra consumer protections such as mandatory 2 year warranties. 2. Just like…

What you say is correct. All things have variations. The Athens flat for 100 euro (though I highly doubt the price you cite) has it's equivalence somewhere in cheap cities of the US

I never said that healthcare was "bad", only that it has its problems.

Please note that I didn't say that Europe is worse, just that you'll be worse financially, which I didn't see you disproving.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#63
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I only have my personal experience and that of my family and friends. And I didn't say "low". Usually it's highly bureaucratic - you have to "climb a ladder" of doctors. First your GP, then a specialist, then, maybe a hospital. You wait a lot (sometimes weeks and months, because you are not "emergency"). And sometimes you encounter outright incompetence and have to go to a private doctor/hospital to have your…

What countries? My experiences are excellent in Netherlands & Spain public healthcare. I hear people complain about NHS a lot but never used it so no idea.

Bulgaria, Spain, Denmark, Finland

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have a very vauable asset for a tech career - a US Citizenship DAFUQ ? I am a French research in computer science, now working for a company producing and streaming contents on the web. I can assure you that my carrer opportunities — as sysadmin, researcher, or developper — are pretty good in France and in Europe :)

I didn't say it's impossible, it's merely generally harder and for less money. Re: sysadmin and developer roles - my post was mostly about diversity and breadth of available roles. These sysadmin and developer roles are generic enough that one will be fine in them in Europe. A sufficiently specialized researcher, on the other hand, usually has only a handful of places in the entire world that are interested in hiring…

> it's merely generally harder and for less money.

My experience has been the opposite in terms of difficulty. In most EU countries the market of software engineers who can also speak the native country's language is really small so its way easier to stand out from the crowd. In the US, you have to compete in a 350 million+ population pool plus global candidates who have studied English their whole lives. In any given EU country the candidate pool is a fraction the size and of those the one's who can communicate fluently in the native language is a fraction of that fraction.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#65

I can only speak for the countries I know about which are Germany, Poland and France. But generally I think these properties hold across Europe as a whole, at least from collegues or friends from other countries whom I've talked to, this might not be the case though so check it out for yourself. So heres the gist of it. You will have a much lower standard of living by most monetary measures. Taxes are higher than in…

what kinda freelance work did you do

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#66
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have more info to support the "usually of very questionable quality" claim? Edit: corrected "low" to "questionable".

Sorry, I only have my personal experience and that of my family and friends. And I didn't say "low". Usually it's highly bureaucratic - you have to "climb a ladder" of doctors. First your GP, then a specialist, then, maybe a hospital. You wait a lot (sometimes weeks and months, because you are not "emergency"). And sometimes you encounter outright incompetence and have to go to a private doctor/hospital to have your…

Sorry for the misquote!

The use of "questionable" in that way is a bit idiomatic, I think, as a polite way to say something is bad.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#67

That's a big life decision. I've lived in Europe my whole life, but I have a lot of friends and relatives in the US. I've also lived in 3 different European countries, and of course I know people from just about all the Western European nations. There's a lot got you to think about. This is only a small part, off the top of my head: - If you're American, you pay tax worldwide. Most countries have higher tax than the…

if I have family there do I still need visa to live with them?

Depends on the country.

It may also matter how much money you make, whether you're married to someone who is taking benefits, and so on. Even for the countries I've lived in, it's been a mess to find out.

And when you do find out, sometimes you find there's some loophole. For instance, if you try to bring a non-EU spouse to Denmark, it's hard if you have low income. However, Sweden is right across the water from Denmark, and there's a bridge connecting them. And the Swedes have a different national law. Also there's EU law, which is another way to get in.

Oh, and the UK voted to leave the EU, so there will be even more legal spaghetti.

Try to narrow down what countries you're interested in, and find someone who can help you.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#68
post #34

Prepare to be much worse financially. You will earn less, pay higher taxes (as percentage) and will feel much poorer. Cars, especially nice ones, are much more expensive (in absolute numbers, not only as percentage of income) to buy and own. Petrol is several times the US price. Rents are higher in most cities (at least compared to income). Maybe only SV is worse compared to Europe. All tech gadgets are more expensiv…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#69
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I only have my personal experience and that of my family and friends. And I didn't say "low". Usually it's highly bureaucratic - you have to "climb a ladder" of doctors. First your GP, then a specialist, then, maybe a hospital. You wait a lot (sometimes weeks and months, because you are not "emergency"). And sometimes you encounter outright incompetence and have to go to a private doctor/hospital to have your…

Sorry for the misquote! The use of "questionable" in that way is a bit idiomatic, I think, as a polite way to say something is bad.

I am not a native speaker and I translated literally from my native language where "questionable" would mean "not guaranteed to be good", but not necessarily bad.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#70
post #19

Europe is big - not geographically, but culturally. As kowdermeister already said, you'll have _very_ different experiences in different parts of Europe. Amsterdam's culture is very different from Barcelona's culture, which is very different from London's culture. Go on a little trip: for Americans I'd suggest Berlin, Amsterdam, London, Madrid, or anything you're interested in.

Europe (the continent) is about the same size as the US, just with twice as many people living in Europe. NA is lots bigger, but a lot of empty space...
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