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China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

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Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#91
post #16
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also wreck habitat for other animals who are in more danger. They are very destructive eaters.

Few open grasslands would exist but for some of the large herbivores. The north American prairie was largely created by buffalos.

Wow. Great fact!

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#92

I always wondered- why is the ivory market not flooded with fakes? Everything is faked in china, this is a valuable good- is there no way to synthesize dentin flood the poachers out of the buisness?

There is a startup trying to do just that... bioengineer rhino horns, tusks etc.

http://signup.pembient.com/

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#93

There have been quite a few downvotes for suggesting that illegalization may not be the best remedy. What are people's thoughts on something like: https://youtu.be/YUA8i5S0YMU tldw: Controlled trophy hunting big game is one of the most effective ways (sadly) of protecting the hunted animals.

> Controlled trophy hunting big game is one of the most effective ways (sadly) of protecting the hunted animals.

This is debatable at best. If you want to have an argument, point out research, not a college humor video.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#94

They need to go further and ban any and all exotic animal trade for the quackery medicine and delicacy markets.

As well as put in place some animal cruelty laws. You would hold your head in your hands if you saw what happens. For dogs, for example, they will tie their front legs together BEHIND their back (YES, DISLOCATING THEM), and leave them tied up like that with a tin can over their mouth until they're ready to deal with them. They'll even hold the dogs legs like a "handle" while carrying them around. I've never seen crue…

I'm not really squeamish, and I'm cognisant of the cultural difference but.. I would caution people against image searching for tied up dogs in the context of China unless you're prepared for some pretty shocking stuff.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#96
post #13

What will happen to the people who hunt/trade ivory. Specifically, those who live in villages and depend on it as a source of income. Will there be assistance to wean them off elephant hunting. I hope they get new skills and do not poach other animals.

This is like saying, in response to a crackdown on mugging, "I hope the muggers get the assistance they need to get new skills and not move on to other crimes." I'd prefer if the poachers actually all got arrested, and got new skills breaking big rocks into smaller rocks.

If a mugger is caught, I'm very much in favor of giving him a hefty prison sentence. However, if you want a sustained decline in the violent crime rate in a whole society, law enforcement is only part of the picture. You absolutely do have to do something about the root causes, the socio-economic factors that were giving a generation of young men the feeling that they had nothing better to do than mug people. It's not about sympathy for criminals. It's about doing things that actually work, not just things that feel righteous.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#97

They need to go further and ban any and all exotic animal trade for the quackery medicine and delicacy markets.

As well as put in place some animal cruelty laws. You would hold your head in your hands if you saw what happens. For dogs, for example, they will tie their front legs together BEHIND their back (YES, DISLOCATING THEM), and leave them tied up like that with a tin can over their mouth until they're ready to deal with them. They'll even hold the dogs legs like a "handle" while carrying them around. I've never seen crue…

That's my limit. The more I learn about China, the more I don't like the country.

Yea--bring on the usual political correctness HN.

Until these Asian countries start treating animals better, including Japan; I will try to avoid buying their products. (I'm not leaving out Africa, etc., either)

I worked at a American national park one summer. There was a group of visiting Chinese Christian Campers in a park cabin. I remember being invited to a dinner party. I went. I was shocked at what I saw. "For dinner we have Stellar Jay soup." There were protected dead animals all over the cabin. I told them they can't do this. They acted like they didn't know our laws. I let it go. I just figured they really don't get it. And yes--they had a ton of store bought food bought by the sponsors. I remember talking to a Chinese pre-med student. He told me the cruelty to animals is commonplace in China. I asked him is it just the poor Chinese? He said no, it's just, "Chinese look at animals as food--period. They have no feelings. They have no rights. He went on to tell me a few stories I can't repeat. That was years ago, but I have had it.

I will try to only buy from countries that have some values I can relate to. Yes--it will be difficult. I might fail?

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For ivory, you would essentially have to grow a tooth in vitro for less than $1500, retail. Technologically, we're not there yet.

Can you prove that ivory is ivory? Why not ceramic or plastic or something that feels like ivory but isn't?

A simple method would be to burn it. If it smells like when you burn fingernail, it probably is ivory.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#99
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As well as put in place some animal cruelty laws. You would hold your head in your hands if you saw what happens. For dogs, for example, they will tie their front legs together BEHIND their back (YES, DISLOCATING THEM), and leave them tied up like that with a tin can over their mouth until they're ready to deal with them. They'll even hold the dogs legs like a "handle" while carrying them around. I've never seen crue…

I'm not really squeamish, and I'm cognisant of the cultural difference but.. I would caution people against image searching for tied up dogs in the context of China unless you're prepared for some pretty shocking stuff.

I know, but I don't think very many people know this even exists. That's the worst part about this practice -- it's so horrible that it's too horrible to even share. As much as I hate it, I know I can't share pictures of this on Facebook because people will likely hate me more than they hate what's going on.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's effort to reduce shark fin soup consumption was incredibly effective. I hope this will be equally successful.

Kudos to Chinese government to work together with international society and celebrities to raise the awareness of normal Chinese people. Shark fin was considered a delicacy, but in fact not tasty at all. Most people just need to get the truth be told to them in a way that they are willing to listen, Cheng Long and Yao Ming are perfect public faces for such effort.

> Shark fin was considered a delicacy, but in fact not tasty at all.

What a meaningless statement - that is as subjective as can be.

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