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Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

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Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#51

Post by hkmurakami »

viral007 wrote: post #46
rjeli wrote: post #16

Great blog post here recently on Japanese work culture: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ "Traditionally, salarymen (and they are, by the way, mostly men) are hired into a particular company late in university and stay at that company or its affiliates until they retire." "The employee hereby promises the company: Your first obligation, in all things, will be to your company. You will work…

After visiting Japan on several occasions for company related work, I can confirm this is true. However, there are labor laws that prevent certain types of workers from working overtime or even the weekends. However, the labor laws do not seem to apply to the management. Unclear on how the law works, but these were my observations.

Yes at some companies you start as a member of the union as a junior employee (even if you're an engineer or finance person), and after you're promoted to a certain level, you're part of management and are no longer part of the union.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#52

Post by jonknee »

vivekd wrote: post #5

If the Japanese are working so much that some a literally working themselves to death - why is their economy so bad? My guess is that a lot of that time is getting used up with unnecessary busy work rather than actual productive labor.

Well that and they are rapidly aging which doesn't bode well for any economy.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#53

Post by hkmurakami »

gragas wrote: post #31
rjeli wrote: post #16

Great blog post here recently on Japanese work culture: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ "Traditionally, salarymen (and they are, by the way, mostly men) are hired into a particular company late in university and stay at that company or its affiliates until they retire." "The employee hereby promises the company: Your first obligation, in all things, will be to your company. You will work…

>Salarymen work large amounts of overtime, although much of it is for appearance’s sake That's just stupid. It makes me wonder, though: is the work culture similar for ex-patriots working in Japan?

If you are seen as being "Japanese" you are expected to conform. If you are seen as a foreigner, you get a pass.

If you ever find yourself working in Japan, use your foreignness to an advantage!

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#54

Post by hkmurakami »

rjeli wrote: post #16

Great blog post here recently on Japanese work culture: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ "Traditionally, salarymen (and they are, by the way, mostly men) are hired into a particular company late in university and stay at that company or its affiliates until they retire." "The employee hereby promises the company: Your first obligation, in all things, will be to your company. You will work…

One of my interview questions as a new grad was "are you going to work here until retirement?" ;)

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#55

Post by h1d »

labster wrote: post #37
Asooka wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long until people just start passively disobeying? I mean, if the choice is death by overwork or loss of career (maybe ending in death due to homelessness)...

It's already happening. There's a large population of NEETs who have withdrawn from the work force.

Doubt they withdrew after having undesired working conditions. Many just do not actively seek jobs.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#56

Post by IshKebab »

maverick_iceman wrote: post #15
pgz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several people argue that working long hours will have a negative impact on productivity. For example if you look at EU countries, the ones with the economy in worse conditions are those with longer working hours (Greece, Italy).

Correlation doesn't imply causation. Maybe people are forced to work more because the economy is bad.

"Correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'." -xkcd

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#57

Post by jedberg »

chipperyman573 wrote: post #39
vtange wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of some college cultures actually. In architecture school you were almost expected to pull all-nighters for the sake of "being a dedicated architecture student". It is like hazing of some sort.

In college nobody knows if you really do pull an all nighter

Just out of curiosity, how old are you/when did you attend college? I ask because "back in the day" everyone knew.

If you were a cs student in 1995, you pretty much had to work in one of the basement labs. One of the profs liked to come to the lab at 3am before a deadline and laugh at us.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#58

Post by matt_wulfeck »

pgz wrote: post #9
vivekd wrote: post #5

If the Japanese are working so much that some a literally working themselves to death - why is their economy so bad? My guess is that a lot of that time is getting used up with unnecessary busy work rather than actual productive labor.

Several people argue that working long hours will have a negative impact on productivity. For example if you look at EU countries, the ones with the economy in worse conditions are those with longer working hours (Greece, Italy).

That's such a weak correlation. Greek is in a crisis because people are working too many hours? Do you honesty believe that?

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#59

Post by cookiecaper »

vtange wrote: post #34
gragas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Salarymen work large amounts of overtime, although much of it is for appearance’s sake That's just stupid. It makes me wonder, though: is the work culture similar for ex-patriots working in Japan?

Reminds me of some college cultures actually. In architecture school you were almost expected to pull all-nighters for the sake of "being a dedicated architecture student". It is like hazing of some sort.

Yes, this is a common theme for noobs everywhere. The older, cooler guys will let you in -- after you've been through the ringer and proven you really want to be in their special club.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#60

Post by johansch »

vivekd wrote: post #5

If the Japanese are working so much that some a literally working themselves to death - why is their economy so bad? My guess is that a lot of that time is getting used up with unnecessary busy work rather than actual productive labor.

South Korea went even crazier and stole their consumer electronics business.

(Both in terms of government subsidies and extreme working hours. And: contrary to the opinion of the united socialist workers of HN, extreme hours sometimes are sometimes actually needed in order to build something new, desirable - well before anyone else. The fact that "extreme hours" are also employed when that is not really the target does not really change things.)

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