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Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

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Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#31

Post by gragas »

rjeli wrote: post #16

Great blog post here recently on Japanese work culture: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ "Traditionally, salarymen (and they are, by the way, mostly men) are hired into a particular company late in university and stay at that company or its affiliates until they retire." "The employee hereby promises the company: Your first obligation, in all things, will be to your company. You will work…

>Salarymen work large amounts of overtime, although much of it is for appearance’s sake

That's just stupid. It makes me wonder, though: is the work culture similar for ex-patriots working in Japan?

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#32

Post by jeremiep »

pgz wrote: post #9
vivekd wrote: post #5

If the Japanese are working so much that some a literally working themselves to death - why is their economy so bad? My guess is that a lot of that time is getting used up with unnecessary busy work rather than actual productive labor.

Several people argue that working long hours will have a negative impact on productivity. For example if you look at EU countries, the ones with the economy in worse conditions are those with longer working hours (Greece, Italy).

I recently switched jobs and now work 35h/week instead of 40. I get a lot more done in those 35 hours now than I did previously in 40.

The worst productivity I ever had was in frantic overtime rushes at the end of projects. There's definitely a link between working hours and productivity.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#34

Post by vtange »

gragas wrote: post #31
rjeli wrote: post #16

Great blog post here recently on Japanese work culture: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ "Traditionally, salarymen (and they are, by the way, mostly men) are hired into a particular company late in university and stay at that company or its affiliates until they retire." "The employee hereby promises the company: Your first obligation, in all things, will be to your company. You will work…

>Salarymen work large amounts of overtime, although much of it is for appearance’s sake That's just stupid. It makes me wonder, though: is the work culture similar for ex-patriots working in Japan?

Reminds me of some college cultures actually. In architecture school you were almost expected to pull all-nighters for the sake of "being a dedicated architecture student". It is like hazing of some sort.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#36

Post by hashmal »

maverick_iceman wrote: post #15
pgz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several people argue that working long hours will have a negative impact on productivity. For example if you look at EU countries, the ones with the economy in worse conditions are those with longer working hours (Greece, Italy).

Correlation doesn't imply causation. Maybe people are forced to work more because the economy is bad.

correlation doesn't forbid causation, either.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#37

Post by labster »

Asooka wrote: post #25
mikesickler wrote: post #7

Dentsu is exhibit A for what's wrong with the Japanese work environment. This isn't the first time they've been responsible for an employee's suicide through overwork. This young woman's tweets before her death are pretty revealing. References to her male superior telling her that she can't hack it because she's a woman, the toxic seniority system where you can't question those above you, 20+ hour days. Just awful.

How long until people just start passively disobeying? I mean, if the choice is death by overwork or loss of career (maybe ending in death due to homelessness)...

It's already happening. There's a large population of NEETs who have withdrawn from the work force.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#38

Post by msbarnett »

gragas wrote: post #31
rjeli wrote: post #16

Great blog post here recently on Japanese work culture: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ "Traditionally, salarymen (and they are, by the way, mostly men) are hired into a particular company late in university and stay at that company or its affiliates until they retire." "The employee hereby promises the company: Your first obligation, in all things, will be to your company. You will work…

>Salarymen work large amounts of overtime, although much of it is for appearance’s sake That's just stupid. It makes me wonder, though: is the work culture similar for ex-patriots working in Japan?

> > Salarymen work large amounts of overtime, although much of it is for appearance’s sake

> That's just stupid.

That's overtime. Almost all overtime, even in the US, is as much about the appearance of working hard rather than any real gains in productivity.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been involved with or seen a startup that "crushes code 100 hours a week because we're out to win, man", with most of those late nights spent with a room full of people online shopping or on HN.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#39

Post by chipperyman573 »

vtange wrote: post #34
gragas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Salarymen work large amounts of overtime, although much of it is for appearance’s sake That's just stupid. It makes me wonder, though: is the work culture similar for ex-patriots working in Japan?

Reminds me of some college cultures actually. In architecture school you were almost expected to pull all-nighters for the sake of "being a dedicated architecture student". It is like hazing of some sort.

In college nobody knows if you really do pull an all nighter

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#40

Post by roymurdock »

vivekd wrote: post #5

If the Japanese are working so much that some a literally working themselves to death - why is their economy so bad? My guess is that a lot of that time is getting used up with unnecessary busy work rather than actual productive labor.

Consider a simple production function:

===

Y = zF(K,L)

Output = Total Factor Productivity * Function of (Capital, Labor)

===

Think of TFP as all the environmental variables that make up "technological dynamism" or the economy's technological infrastructure (horse -> steam -> coal -> oil, human capital/education, etc.) that increase productivity in fundamental but intangible ways, and that can only be calculated indirectly.

If you hold TFP (z) and Capital (K) constant, an increase in Labor (L) (total number of hours worked) should increase output.

If investment in capital is decreasing (which it currently is) and subsequently the stock of capital decreases; or, if the TFP is decreasing (which is currently is), an increased amount of labor is required to keep output constant.

Weak/declining output = slow/negative GDP growth = "bad economy"

The "Cobb-Douglas" output model takes this simple model one step further by embedding the output elasticities of labor and capital into the production function, allowing one to build in diminishing marginal returns. I.E. every hour of labor or unit of capital above a certain point produces less output than the previous hour/unit. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobb%E2%80%93Douglas_productio...

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