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Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

money.cnn.com

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Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#21

Post by sologoub »

For context, from the article: "Takahashi had clocked about 105 hours of overtime in the month leading up to her death, authorities found."

Japan has a 40 hour work week and a max of overtime a person can volunteer for. In a month this limit is an additional 45 hours. An employee can agree to more overtime but the source refers to some labor safeguards that are supposed to kick in: https://www.jetro.go.jp/en/invest/setting_up/laws/section4/p...

So in essence, she worked more than double the allowed overtime (around 65 hours per week total work time).

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#22

Post by jodrellblank »

com2kid wrote: post #14
jodrellblank wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they get their work done they shouldn't feel guilty leaving at 5:00. If they get their work done, should they feel guilty leaving at 3:00?

When I was a manager? Nope. I had people who got in at 7, left at 3. No problem.

Nice subversion. But I was poking at the relationship between duration, rather than offset.

Should they feel guilty leaving early if they finished their work?

Should they feel guilty leaving late if they haven't finished their work?

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#24

Post by arkitaip »

sologoub wrote: post #21

For context, from the article: "Takahashi had clocked about 105 hours of overtime in the month leading up to her death, authorities found." Japan has a 40 hour work week and a max of overtime a person can volunteer for. In a month this limit is an additional 45 hours. An employee can agree to more overtime but the source refers to some labor safeguards that are supposed to kick in: https://www.jetro.go.jp/en/invest/s…

Many Japanese companies pressure their employees to report significantly less hours than they actually work. So not only will they work you to death, they are stealing money from you along the way.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#25

Post by Asooka »

mikesickler wrote: post #7

Dentsu is exhibit A for what's wrong with the Japanese work environment. This isn't the first time they've been responsible for an employee's suicide through overwork. This young woman's tweets before her death are pretty revealing. References to her male superior telling her that she can't hack it because she's a woman, the toxic seniority system where you can't question those above you, 20+ hour days. Just awful.

How long until people just start passively disobeying? I mean, if the choice is death by overwork or loss of career (maybe ending in death due to homelessness)...

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#26

Post by martin_henk »

MichaelBurge wrote: post #2

That's sad, especially since most of the extra hours are busywork and peer pressure from what I've read. What happens in Japan if you put in a simple 40-hour week, do good work, and then leave at the end of the day? I also understand their government makes it very difficult to fire employees. And I can't imagine they'd reassign you to watch the paint dry if you're actually doing good work. Would you mainly miss out o…

I live and work in Japan since 2011. The most part of this time in larger companies. Afaik Dentsu takes or took huge pride in being an elitist salaryman operation. People joining them couldn't be totally unaware of this. Keyence is another place with a similar reputation. Although you'll find more places like this, it is not that common. I am pretty sure every country has companies like this.

Further, Japanese people work long hours. Some will due to peer pressure. Some will cause they have nobody waiting at home. In some workplaces your colleagues are like friends. So, they socialize a lot during work hours. I think there is no single reason why Japanese people work longer hours than Europeans for example.

I am convinced however, that on the average a Japanese employee takes a huge amount of pride from doing a good job. The point: How to judge if a job was executed well or not? I experience this not to be so easy mostly due to the Japanese style of communication, which leaves a lot of space for ambiguity. Maybe long work hours stem from this.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#28

Post by noarchy »

Asooka wrote: post #20
binarymax wrote: post #17

Do I read this right, 105 hours of overtime implying a 145 hour work week (if accounting for a regular 40 hour week)?

Over one whole month, so that's more like 61 hours per week. Which, judging by the rest of the comments in this thread, isn't unexpected for a Japanese white collar worker.

>Over one whole month, so that's more like 61 hours per week.

How many of us know people in North America who are putting in those kinds of hours? You know, gotta "go the extra mile" for the startup, and all.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#29

Post by jupiter90000 »

vivekd wrote: post #5

If the Japanese are working so much that some a literally working themselves to death - why is their economy so bad? My guess is that a lot of that time is getting used up with unnecessary busy work rather than actual productive labor.

From what I've read/heard about this in Japan, your guess is correct.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#30

Post by madengr »

Asooka wrote: post #20
binarymax wrote: post #17

Do I read this right, 105 hours of overtime implying a 145 hour work week (if accounting for a regular 40 hour week)?

Over one whole month, so that's more like 61 hours per week. Which, judging by the rest of the comments in this thread, isn't unexpected for a Japanese white collar worker.

Hell, I spent the month of December on a "karoshi" project with types of hours. Fuck that! I took two week off to recover. At least they paid me overtime for the hours between 45 and 60, which is highly unusual.
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