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Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

money.cnn.com

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Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#11

Post by keithpeter »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #8
vezycash wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is it just a social thing The little I know about Japan is from Anime, books, articles and online comments. In Japan, leaving before the boss is distasteful. Also, going home early instead of socializing after work is frowned upon even by one's spouse. I've also read that there's no job hopping. Employee for life is still a thing there. And an ex-employer's comment is heavily weighted by prospective employers. Addit…

> In Japan, leaving before the boss is distasteful My personal management policy is I get in before and leave after all my employees incase they need me and to show them that I am there for/with them (within reason - if someone is putting a really late night I may leave first). The idea of not leaving before the boss leaves is weird to me. I get higher pay and more stock options, why should I be leaving early when my…

"If they get their work done they shouldn't feel guilty leaving at 5:00."

Good for you. Do you spread this message widely? OA5[1] on a t-shirt or something?

[1] Scott Adams Out at Five as an organising principle.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#12

Post by freehunter »

jodrellblank wrote: post #10
throwaway2016a wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Japan, leaving before the boss is distasteful My personal management policy is I get in before and leave after all my employees incase they need me and to show them that I am there for/with them (within reason - if someone is putting a really late night I may leave first). The idea of not leaving before the boss leaves is weird to me. I get higher pay and more stock options, why should I be leaving early when my…

If they get their work done they shouldn't feel guilty leaving at 5:00. If they get their work done, should they feel guilty leaving at 3:00?

My experience is, there's always more work to be done if you finish your tasks early.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#13

Post by pgz »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #8
vezycash wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is it just a social thing The little I know about Japan is from Anime, books, articles and online comments. In Japan, leaving before the boss is distasteful. Also, going home early instead of socializing after work is frowned upon even by one's spouse. I've also read that there's no job hopping. Employee for life is still a thing there. And an ex-employer's comment is heavily weighted by prospective employers. Addit…

> In Japan, leaving before the boss is distasteful My personal management policy is I get in before and leave after all my employees incase they need me and to show them that I am there for/with them (within reason - if someone is putting a really late night I may leave first). The idea of not leaving before the boss leaves is weird to me. I get higher pay and more stock options, why should I be leaving early when my…

> The idea of not leaving before the boss leaves is weird to me. I get higher pay and more stock options, why should I be leaving early when my team is working their butt's off?

For two reasons:

- You get higher higher pay because hopefully you are more useful to your company than the other people in your team.

- You are probably forcing your team to work longer than they would if you left before them.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#14

Post by com2kid »

jodrellblank wrote: post #10
throwaway2016a wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Japan, leaving before the boss is distasteful My personal management policy is I get in before and leave after all my employees incase they need me and to show them that I am there for/with them (within reason - if someone is putting a really late night I may leave first). The idea of not leaving before the boss leaves is weird to me. I get higher pay and more stock options, why should I be leaving early when my…

If they get their work done they shouldn't feel guilty leaving at 5:00. If they get their work done, should they feel guilty leaving at 3:00?

When I was a manager? Nope.

I had people who got in at 7, left at 3. No problem.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#15

Post by maverick_iceman »

pgz wrote: post #9
vivekd wrote: post #5

If the Japanese are working so much that some a literally working themselves to death - why is their economy so bad? My guess is that a lot of that time is getting used up with unnecessary busy work rather than actual productive labor.

Several people argue that working long hours will have a negative impact on productivity. For example if you look at EU countries, the ones with the economy in worse conditions are those with longer working hours (Greece, Italy).

Correlation doesn't imply causation. Maybe people are forced to work more because the economy is bad.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#16

Post by rjeli »

Great blog post here recently on Japanese work culture: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/

"Traditionally, salarymen (and they are, by the way, mostly men) are hired into a particular company late in university and stay at that company or its affiliates until they retire."

"The employee hereby promises the company: Your first obligation, in all things, will be to your company. You will work incredibly hard (90+ hour weeks barely even occasion comment) on their behalf."

"Salarymen work large amounts of overtime, although much of it is for appearance’s sake rather than because it actually accomplishes more productive work. Depending on one’s company, this overtime may be compensated or “service overtime” — “service” in Japanese means “thrown in for free in the hopes of gaining one’s further custom”, so your favorite restaurant might throw in a “service” desert once in a while or you might do 8 hours of “service” overtime six nights a week for 15 years."

The whole post is a great read that comes from a first-hand experience.

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#19

Post by pg_is_a_butt »

vivekd wrote: post #5

If the Japanese are working so much that some a literally working themselves to death - why is their economy so bad? My guess is that a lot of that time is getting used up with unnecessary busy work rather than actual productive labor.

i know, right... it's like nagasaki is barely making anything!

na...ga.. naga.... na gonna be fixing the economy that way!

Re: Dentsu CEO resigns after overworked employee commits suicide

#20

Post by Asooka »

binarymax wrote: post #17

Do I read this right, 105 hours of overtime implying a 145 hour work week (if accounting for a regular 40 hour week)?

Over one whole month, so that's more like 61 hours per week. Which, judging by the rest of the comments in this thread, isn't unexpected for a Japanese white collar worker.
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