Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries • Hacker News Board

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#181

Post by bobthechef » Thu, Dec 29, 2016, 3:48 PM UTC

mantas wrote: post #44

kbart wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vilnius has a small Energy and Technology Museum[0] located in the building of the first power plant (opened in 1903) in country. Probably not worth going to Vilnius just for it, but if you happened to be nearby, it's worth its time. 0. https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g274951-d18864...

In addition to that, Ignalina (150km-ish from Vilnius) nuclear power plant, which is currently being disassembled, offers tours too.

That power plant was supposed to be upgraded and expanded as a part of a joint project between Lithuania and its neighbors to deliver power to Lithuania and those neighbors. Nothing came of it.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#182

Post by bobthechef » Thu, Dec 29, 2016, 4:03 PM UTC

danmaz74 wrote: post #21

Is Poland using almost only coal?

Yes. Sadly, Poland doesn't have much room to maneuver at the moment. Putting aside the coal miner unions and the economic collapse of coal mining regions it would cause if Poland had the option to quickly move off, cleaner sources remain either prohibitively expensive and/or blocked by environmental groups (you're as likely to find environmental groups protesting nuclear as shale gas). Add to that the dependence on Russian gas (save for some Norwegian gas), the low cost of coal and Germany's smarmy deals with Russia including Nordstream that are designed to cut central Europe out with serious political consequences, Poland really is in no position to choose otherwise right now.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#183

Post by bobthechef » Thu, Dec 29, 2016, 4:07 PM UTC

renaudg wrote: post #169

machiaweliczny wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is wrong with Poland. If something is wrong then your ability to read presented data. It doesn't mean we are emitting more CO2 - for all colored map lovers see[1] CO2 emission per capita for Germany or other European countries before jumping to conclusions. [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CO2_per_capita_per_c...

> Nothing is wrong with Poland. If something is wrong then your ability to read presented data. This is, unfortunately, what nationalistic pride clouding otherwise smart people's judgment looks like.

To be fair, that was a poor choice of words. It came off as flippant and presumptuous, so irritation isn't surprising. Also, pegging it as "nationalistic pride" is not constructive on your part and also comes off as ignorant.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#184

Post by bobthechef » Thu, Dec 29, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

finchisko wrote: post #95

skocznymroczny wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have coal, so we use it, like other countries did before. Wind/solar farms don't work well here because of the weather and are expensive. Nuclear plants would require foreign technology which is very costly, and so far nuclear plants here are just a dream, a way to drain the public funds into the pockets of "nuclear plant construction" committee, which doesn't do anything useful (it doesn't help that the public op…

Don't be mad at me, but basically what are you saying is: "Screw you all, screw the planet, flood after us...". You should really not use argument: "you did it, so we will also do it", because when "we" did it, there was probably no other way. And now is. It's 2016, you can't burn coal in rate like it was 15th century. It won't help us transition to clean energy anyhow.

What an ignorant and flippant comment. Before commenting, it's important to understand the reasons for why things are. Poland is burning coal for a number of reasons. First, coal forms the economic base for Silesia. You can't move away from coal unless you can transition the regional economy to something else. Second, Poland isn't exactly in a position to transition to other energy sources all that easily. Nuclear is expensive, shale gas is blocked by environmental groups (though Poland has one of the largest deposits in Europe). Solar and wind have already been commented on. Third, there is no energy solidarity in Europe, something made evident by Germany's smarmy deals with Russia that intentionally circumvent central Europe (e.g., Nordstream) that have serious political consequences, allowing Russia to cut energy to c. Europe while maintaining uninterrupted gas flow to Germany. Meanwhile, Germany, Europe's largest economy, is still burning coal and the failure of climate agreements show the hypocrisy and arrogance of the world's wealthiest countries when it comes to climate change. Making silly and absurd remarks about 15th century coal consumption is a testament to your boorish and condescending attitude towards others.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#185

Post by bobthechef » Thu, Dec 29, 2016, 4:52 PM UTC

renaudg wrote: post #168

krzyk wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a point, but you have to also consider the fact that it is hypocritical to say that we are "Screwing the planet". If others were screwing it to build their economy, other countries also should have that ability. Countries that have more money can afford other forms of energy, but coal is abundant in Poland and it would be foolish not to use it. For solar power, Poland doesn't have good geographical position,…

> If others were screwing it to build their economy, other countries also should have that ability Because of course building one's economy matters more than screwing the planet we all live on ? What Poland is doing (as others did before) is very understandable, but it doesn't mean it's acceptable.

"Because of course building one's economy matters more than screwing the planet we all live on ?"

What a disgusting remark. Your entitlement and privilege are showing, never mind your lack of appreciation for geopolitical context and the lives of others outside of your comfortable bubble. Climate alarmism may feel good to the self-righteous, but it is unproductive and has been used to justify all kinds of despicable tactics by the powerful. There are a number of intertwined concerns that any charitable and fair-minded person would take into account before sowing baseless condemnation. I've already given some reasons why Poland is dependent on coal above. For Poland, energy independence is also a matter of national security. Coal also forms the economic base for Silesia. If climate change is so serious, then why don't you direct your pitchfork at the largest economies in the world that have been dragging their feet in these areas yet have the wealth to actual do something about it. Pull the plank out of your own eye before looking for splinters in the eyes of others.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#186

Post by hnusername » Thu, Dec 29, 2016, 4:58 PM UTC

Message that does not appear (pending?)

Just look at the top reddit r/dataisbeautiful/ comment

Took me a minute to realize that Poland wasn't black because of missing data, but rather because that's apparently how dirty their electricity is.

And why ? Because of black color used obviously. Ok but lets leave this unfortunate color aside. Many other questions arise.

- What does it mean that the page has live data visualization. How often is the data updated ?

- How many sources of data are there. Does it cover all of them in every country ? Are they all online all the time ?

- Why is Estonia dark brown the whole time but when i click on it is see

  wind ++
  solar ?
  hydro
  biomass ?
  nuclear
  gas ?
  coal
  oil ?
  unknown ++++++++++

and it still has 595 gCO2eq/kWh

- What does "?" stands for in the results? Are some sources unavailable or is the data corrupted or what ?

- Why there is nothing under coal ?

- What does unknown here mean ? Does it contribute to gCO2eq/kWh ? I mean, so much of unknown energy. Are you serious ?

- What is the metric used after all ?

Is this software even alpha ? What is the version ? That is all very important when you create "facts" like this in Internet.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#187

Post by finchisko » Thu, Dec 29, 2016, 8:40 PM UTC

bobthechef wrote: post #185

renaudg wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If others were screwing it to build their economy, other countries also should have that ability Because of course building one's economy matters more than screwing the planet we all live on ? What Poland is doing (as others did before) is very understandable, but it doesn't mean it's acceptable.

"Because of course building one's economy matters more than screwing the planet we all live on ?" What a disgusting remark. Your entitlement and privilege are showing, never mind your lack of appreciation for geopolitical context and the lives of others outside of your comfortable bubble. Climate alarmism may feel good to the self-righteous, but it is unproductive and has been used to justify all kinds of despicable…

Not sure If you checked those numbers. Look at Norway 20GW of clean energy (99% of clean energy). They're doing it.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#188

Post by finchisko » Thu, Dec 29, 2016, 8:51 PM UTC

bobthechef wrote: post #184

finchisko wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be mad at me, but basically what are you saying is: "Screw you all, screw the planet, flood after us...". You should really not use argument: "you did it, so we will also do it", because when "we" did it, there was probably no other way. And now is. It's 2016, you can't burn coal in rate like it was 15th century. It won't help us transition to clean energy anyhow.

What an ignorant and flippant comment. Before commenting, it's important to understand the reasons for why things are. Poland is burning coal for a number of reasons. First, coal forms the economic base for Silesia. You can't move away from coal unless you can transition the regional economy to something else. Second, Poland isn't exactly in a position to transition to other energy sources all that easily. Nuclear is…

I've feeling you're only finding excuses, why it's ok to continue to burn coal. It seems there is no single alternative they want to accept (weather is bad, atom is expensive ...) and that is what really bothers me. That is pure ignorance. Poland coal supply no matter how huge is today, one day it will all gone and they'll have to transition from it anyway.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#189

Post by passingbyviewer » Thu, Dec 29, 2016, 9:03 PM UTC

finchisko wrote: post #187

bobthechef wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Because of course building one's economy matters more than screwing the planet we all live on ?" What a disgusting remark. Your entitlement and privilege are showing, never mind your lack of appreciation for geopolitical context and the lives of others outside of your comfortable bubble. Climate alarmism may feel good to the self-righteous, but it is unproductive and has been used to justify all kinds of despicable…

Not sure If you checked those numbers. Look at Norway 20GW of clean energy (99% of clean energy). They're doing it.

You like numbers ? See those numbers

- What does it mean that the page has live data visualization. How often is the data updated ?

- How many sources of data are there. Does it cover all of them in every country ? Are they all online all the time ?

- Why is Estonia dark brown the whole time but when i click on it is see

  wind ++
  solar ?
  hydro
  biomass ?
  nuclear
  gas ?
  coal
  oil ?
  unknown ++++++++++

and it still has 595 gCO2eq/kWh

- What does "?" stands for in the results? Are some sources unavailable or is the data corrupted or what ?

- Why there is nothing under coal ?

- What does unknown here mean ? Does it contribute to gCO2eq/kWh ? I mean, so much of unknown energy. Are you serious ?

- What is the metric used after all ?

Is this software even alpha ? What is the version ? That is all very important when you create "facts" like this in Internet

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#190

Post by scotty79 » Fri, Dec 30, 2016, 2:58 PM UTC

bobthechef wrote: post #180

primitivesuave wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't your government effectively take away all powers from the top constitutional court, allowing the government to pass any law without judicial backlash? Meanwhile you are all hung up on what the color green represents.

Btw, that's not at all accurate where Poland's constitutional court is concerned (mind you, the court was created by a communist dictator to guard the regime against the rising tide of the Solidarity movement; couple that with Poland's mediocre constitution today and the previous ruling party's machinations and involvement in manufacturing the crisis). The issue is more complicated than what the media has presented u…

> the court was created by a communist dictator to guard the regime against the rising tide of the Solidarity movement

Funny for you to say that since the creation of constitutional court was one of the Solidarity's demands to the goverment.

Besides, now, once the "law and order" forcefully injected into the court their own mediocre but loyal laweyrs it appeals to the people (with the voice of the president) to respect thet constitutional court.