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US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

washingtonpost.com

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Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#131

Post by djsumdog »

lend000 wrote: post #123
badsock wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as an example: 9% of the cases of Idiosyncratic Drug-induced Liver Injury is self-harm caused by people taking non-regulated dietary supplements: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18955056 You have a theory that the average person will wisely assume the responsibility to vet the health effects of what they consume, but empirical reality disagrees with your theory. Right now people are injuring themselves with…

And people will also choose to eat potato chips, not exercise, smoke, and drink heavily. You can't protect people from themselves, and even if it was an ethical government job to do so, i.e. take away people's freedoms because the government says it knows better, like with marijuana (I am REALLY humoring you, if you can't tell), there is no practical argument either. How much do you think your high estimate of X% who…

True, there are always people who will do that. I try to eat very low-carb and it's helped my heath dramatically, but even I occasionally will have a burger or real pasta.

The issue is education. It's very difficult to tell what is healthy and what isn't. There is a lot of research coming out that shows us sugar and starches are very bad for us. The stress from those carbs can damage our arteries and is what allows cholesterol to build.

The industry has a vested interest in people not knowing/believing in that. Sugar and HF Corn Syrup is a massive industry. Soda companies have been losing money as people finally move away and now we start to see the tides change.

Regardless, we need good education about what is and isn't health. Otherwise people struggle with weight and just get frustrated and resolve themselves to eat unhealthy because nothing seems to help reduce their weight or cravings.

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#132

Post by hueving »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #50
WillPostForFood wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why people have been so slow to mobilize around climate change predictions.

Only through people's incorrect interpretation of reality. >nutrition science is hardly 'solved' and you'd be hard pressed to find a researcher in the field suggest otherwise. You'd be hard pressed to find a climate scientist not in agreement with the consensus on climate change, at least one that isn't already promoting book deals on Fox.

>You'd be hard pressed to find a climate scientist not in agreement with the consensus on climate change

You'd also be hard pressed to find a numerologist not in agreement with the consensus that numerology is effective.

Argument from authority isn't appropriate in this forum.

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#134

Post by baron816 »

djsumdog wrote: post #128
petilon wrote: post #97

This doesn't go far enough. That there is a link between high cholesterol and heart disease is only a hypotheses, not a scientifically proven fact. Lowering cholesterol does not necessarily lower heart disease. Read more here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/opinion/27taubes.html Because the link between excessive LDL cholesterol and cardiovascular disease has been so widely accepted, the Food and Drug Administrati…

I agree with you. This article also mentions they're focusing on fats/saturated fats; which is also a terrible focus. The real danger is not fat, even saturated/trans-fats, but starches and sugar. The increase in these types of carbohydrates in products like baby formula is actually leading to obesity in infants! Excess sugar can stress arteries and damage them. Cholesterol is carried to these artier by lipids (LDLs…

It's also a myth that runners need a high carb diet. I was a competitive distance runner for many years with a high carb diet and I'm confident that my performance suffered because of it. You're cells become much more efficient at using energy as you train, so you really don't need to eat that many calories at all. I was running 80+ miles per week, with a not above average calorie intake (for Americans), and my weight was stable.

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#135

Post by derenrich »

watertom wrote: post #84
rcavezza wrote: post #12

Here is my paraphrased takeaway: Cholesterol you see in your blood results is still bad. Whole milk, butter, and fatty meats is still bad. Foods like eggs, shrimp, and lobster might be good. I don't think this changes any of my mental models. The foods that I always thought of as "probably not great" are still classified as such, according to this article.

Of course then there is Linus Pauling who says that cholesterol has noting to do with heart disease, which he called chronic scurvy, insufficient L-ascorbic acid and lysine is the real underlying cause. I'm throwing my lot in with Linus, he was as smart or smarter than probably anyone in history, and he wasn't making money from his discovery.

Not sure if you are joking, but Pauling was pretty wrong when talking about vitamin C. His ideas were repeatedly rejected by actual research studies and yet he kept pursuing vitamin C. I assign him very little credibility in this arena.

Also he was making money from the sale of his books.

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#136

Post by tmuir »

clarkmoody wrote: post #17

Wouldn't it be nice if there were more government warnings and less restrictions / regulations? Imagine if the FDA, instead of blocking new drugs for 10 years and $1B, it simply withheld its endorsement until satisfied by the clinical trials. Consumers could then take the government's recommendations into consideration when making a decision and drugs could get to market much faster. The history of medical reversals…

You are describing a world in which all decisions made by all humans are informed by perfect logic. The beautiful paradox of such a world is that wouldn't require any government, or any other external system of control. Any external system of control in a perfectly logical and rational world would be unable to demonstrate any value whatsoever, as there would be no conflicts to resolve whatsoever.

Thus, in lieu of 100% of humans being 100% rational, 100% of the time, a nonzero amount of government, creating nonzero amounts of regulation it is an absolute necessity.

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#137

Post by kyriakos »

djsumdog wrote: post #131
lend000 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And people will also choose to eat potato chips, not exercise, smoke, and drink heavily. You can't protect people from themselves, and even if it was an ethical government job to do so, i.e. take away people's freedoms because the government says it knows better, like with marijuana (I am REALLY humoring you, if you can't tell), there is no practical argument either. How much do you think your high estimate of X% who…

True, there are always people who will do that. I try to eat very low-carb and it's helped my heath dramatically, but even I occasionally will have a burger or real pasta. The issue is education. It's very difficult to tell what is healthy and what isn't. There is a lot of research coming out that shows us sugar and starches are very bad for us. The stress from those carbs can damage our arteries and is what allows c…

How's a burger carbs btw? Unless you mean the bun and not the actual patty.

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#138

Post by hogrammer »

Most problems that can be preventable with diet are caused by one simple thing: obesity. Simply put down your fork and maintain a proper weight and body-fat percentage and you can eat what you want.

We need to start taxing the overweight and obese.

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#139

Post by argonaut »

baron816 wrote: post #134
djsumdog wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. This article also mentions they're focusing on fats/saturated fats; which is also a terrible focus. The real danger is not fat, even saturated/trans-fats, but starches and sugar. The increase in these types of carbohydrates in products like baby formula is actually leading to obesity in infants! Excess sugar can stress arteries and damage them. Cholesterol is carried to these artier by lipids (LDLs…

It's also a myth that runners need a high carb diet. I was a competitive distance runner for many years with a high carb diet and I'm confident that my performance suffered because of it. You're cells become much more efficient at using energy as you train, so you really don't need to eat that many calories at all. I was running 80+ miles per week, with a not above average calorie intake (for Americans), and my weigh…

There's a certain irony in calling something a myth based on your personal anecdote.

Re: US government to withdraw longstanding warnings about cholesterol (2015)

#140

Post by lend000 »

djsumdog wrote: post #131
lend000 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And people will also choose to eat potato chips, not exercise, smoke, and drink heavily. You can't protect people from themselves, and even if it was an ethical government job to do so, i.e. take away people's freedoms because the government says it knows better, like with marijuana (I am REALLY humoring you, if you can't tell), there is no practical argument either. How much do you think your high estimate of X% who…

True, there are always people who will do that. I try to eat very low-carb and it's helped my heath dramatically, but even I occasionally will have a burger or real pasta. The issue is education. It's very difficult to tell what is healthy and what isn't. There is a lot of research coming out that shows us sugar and starches are very bad for us. The stress from those carbs can damage our arteries and is what allows c…

I agree, and the FDA and USDA basically have a monopoly on providing that education in the current system. They aren't doing so well. Scaling back as the original commenter suggested would still offer government-stamped peace of mind for some products, but for those that aren't approved/are still pending, there will be room for private reviewing organizations to step in, probably providing consumers with more diverse opinions.
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