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Creative Tim: Growing a side project into a $17k/month business

indiehackers.com

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Re: Creative Tim: Growing a side project into a $17k/month business

#91

Post by morgante »

lemming wrote: post #86
limelight wrote: post #36

I really love these IndieHackers interviews but surprisingly find them somewhat demotivating. Even the more successful interviewees make less revenue per month than I can make through straight consulting. And they're the success stories—most people (including myself) make far less per month from their products. How do people keep motivated to work on side projects when consulting is so much more profitable?

Because money isn't everything. What I'm working on isn't a side project, it's my main gig, but it's paying the bills nicely. But I started this after quitting from a post-acquisition job at Google paying $400k plus 4 years of retention bonus totalling a lot of money. I would absolutely have been financially much, much better off at Google. But I would have had to live in the US which I didn't want to do, and I would…

I think you're been unnecessary defensive. I'm not questioning the value of doing side projects.

Money might not be everything, but it certainly is something. This is especially true when comparing consulting (something I genuinely quite like doing, it's almost totally bullshit free) with running my own SaaS startup (which also seems attractive, but would involve doing more of the things I dislike than now).

Still, to be clear, I absolutely do want to make side projects happen. It's just hard to keep the motivation up when there's a steady flow of interesting projects from clients which have immediate, guaranteed revenue attached to them.

Re: Creative Tim: Growing a side project into a $17k/month business

#92

Post by cheez »

jackgolding wrote: post #85
callmeed wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the common perception is that a software product has a marginal cost of near zero and can scale, whereas consulting limits you to your billable hours and requires constantly chasing down new clients. You may debate the merits of that argument and it doesn't take into account product maintenance and support–but I think there is some validity to it. Also, some SaaS/product success stories take the path of CONSU…

> Also, some SaaS/product success stories take the path of CONSULTING/AGENCY -> PRODUCT -> SUCCESS (e.g. Basecamp, SEOmoz, FreshBooks) but you rarely hear of the reverse. There are a lot of people (i.e. @levelsio) who launch a career as a speaker out of products, I imagine part of that is consulting

I have to agree with this. A lot of people create products to augment their consulting services.

Re: Creative Tim: Growing a side project into a $17k/month business

#93

Post by lemming »

morgante wrote: post #91
lemming wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because money isn't everything. What I'm working on isn't a side project, it's my main gig, but it's paying the bills nicely. But I started this after quitting from a post-acquisition job at Google paying $400k plus 4 years of retention bonus totalling a lot of money. I would absolutely have been financially much, much better off at Google. But I would have had to live in the US which I didn't want to do, and I would…

I think you're been unnecessary defensive. I'm not questioning the value of doing side projects. Money might not be everything , but it certainly is something . This is especially true when comparing consulting (something I genuinely quite like doing, it's almost totally bullshit free) with running my own SaaS startup (which also seems attractive, but would involve doing more of the things I dislike than now). Still,…

Sorry if you thought I was being defensive, it wasn't my intention. I was just explaining why, for me, what is essentially a lifestyle business is much more attractive than consultancy, or working in a large company. If you like consultancy then keep doing it, by all means - I'm just happy to see people doing things they like doing.

For me, the really major win is not having to live in or near a tech hub or large city to have interesting work, and to have control of my time. Most of the lifestyle stuff just flows on from that.

Re: Creative Tim: Growing a side project into a $17k/month business

#94

Post by Hbthegreat »

csallen wrote: post #90
cheez wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Money isn't everything" - guy who obviously made more than 2 million USD working at Google for 4 years... I don't want to say you're wrong, but money isn't everything is easy to say when you have it.

In his defense, he's really comparing ~$200k to ~$400k, not poverty to $400k. Beyond a certain point, the more money you have, the less extra money matters.

This mentality is what drives people to mediocrity. Not reaching your full potential just hurts yourself, your family and your community in the long run. If you have the capability to learn more, earn more and create great businesses don't sit on the sidelines the world needs more action takers.

Re: Creative Tim: Growing a side project into a $17k/month business

#95

Post by lemming »

Hbthegreat wrote: post #94
csallen wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In his defense, he's really comparing ~$200k to ~$400k, not poverty to $400k. Beyond a certain point, the more money you have, the less extra money matters.

This mentality is what drives people to mediocrity. Not reaching your full potential just hurts yourself, your family and your community in the long run. If you have the capability to learn more, earn more and create great businesses don't sit on the sidelines the world needs more action takers.

You're equating potential with money. I make more people happy doing what I do now than what I would have done at Google. And importantly, I'm a much better father than I would have been were I working 50 hours a week. Me, my family and my community are all much better off with my current situation than we would have been had I taken the job.

Re: Creative Tim: Growing a side project into a $17k/month business

#96

Post by morgante »

lemming wrote: post #93
morgante wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're been unnecessary defensive. I'm not questioning the value of doing side projects. Money might not be everything , but it certainly is something . This is especially true when comparing consulting (something I genuinely quite like doing, it's almost totally bullshit free) with running my own SaaS startup (which also seems attractive, but would involve doing more of the things I dislike than now). Still,…

Sorry if you thought I was being defensive, it wasn't my intention. I was just explaining why, for me, what is essentially a lifestyle business is much more attractive than consultancy, or working in a large company. If you like consultancy then keep doing it, by all means - I'm just happy to see people doing things they like doing. For me, the really major win is not having to live in or near a tech hub or large cit…

Sorry, I guess I misread your tone.

Being able to work from anywhere is definitely a huge advantage (of both consulting and lifestyle businesses). I just wish I could make a lifestyle business which actually paid for the lifestyle my consulting does.

For now, my plan is to focus on becoming financially independent so I can work on anything (including side projects) without worrying about money.

Re: Creative Tim: Growing a side project into a $17k/month business

#97

Post by lemming »

morgante wrote: post #96
lemming wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if you thought I was being defensive, it wasn't my intention. I was just explaining why, for me, what is essentially a lifestyle business is much more attractive than consultancy, or working in a large company. If you like consultancy then keep doing it, by all means - I'm just happy to see people doing things they like doing. For me, the really major win is not having to live in or near a tech hub or large cit…

Sorry, I guess I misread your tone. Being able to work from anywhere is definitely a huge advantage (of both consulting and lifestyle businesses). I just wish I could make a lifestyle business which actually paid for the lifestyle my consulting does. For now, my plan is to focus on becoming financially independent so I can work on anything (including side projects) without worrying about money.

Sure, and I think that's a great plan. It's more or less what I did - I didn't make FU money from the acquisition, but enough that I didn't have to worry about it for a while while I found something fun to work on. However you're in a better position than me because I truly hated that job for several years before it unexpectedly worked out well, which is why I was willing to sacrifice a large pile of cash for long-term happiness. If you can get to being sufficiently financially comfortable while doing something you enjoy, you should totally do that.

Re: Creative Tim: Growing a side project into a $17k/month business

#98

Post by gbrits »

proee wrote: post #59
limelight wrote: post #36

I really love these IndieHackers interviews but surprisingly find them somewhat demotivating. Even the more successful interviewees make less revenue per month than I can make through straight consulting. And they're the success stories—most people (including myself) make far less per month from their products. How do people keep motivated to work on side projects when consulting is so much more profitable?

You need to consider the fact that Tim is creating a real asset that has a market valuation based on a multiplier of revenue and/or profits. In the business I created with my cofounder, we never made that much on a monthly basis, but when we finally sold the company, we did very well. So to motivate yourself, just ask yourself how much would you like your business to be worth if you ever decide to sell it?

As one reference point, I've seen smaller saas-companies go for about [2,3] times ARR. Source: following feinternational newsletter. Always thought that was a bit dissapointing. Care to share your experience?

Re: Creative Tim: Growing a side project into a $17k/month business

#99

Post by angry-hacker »

rfrey wrote: post #3

I devour indiehacker's interviews and I love the transparency - thanks to both sides of the table. According to the numbers here, 42% of the 17,000 monthly revenues are spent on 6 people. That's $1190 per person per month if everyone is paid equally. Is everyone in Romania, and is that a living wage there? If not, how are your employees making ends meet? Edit: that last sentence sounds accusatory - I don't mean it to…

While this is Romania and one of the poorest in EU, one thing Americans tend to forget is that all the good things you like about EU like healthcare etc. come with a cost. It's not like only super rich put the money in :) The Silicon Valley wages are here utopia, even in the most expensive cities. Ask a Swiss about the salary your dev makes in Valley and he or she will have an heart attack.

Re: Creative Tim: Growing a side project into a $17k/month business

#100

Post by farm_code »

limelight wrote: post #36

I really love these IndieHackers interviews but surprisingly find them somewhat demotivating. Even the more successful interviewees make less revenue per month than I can make through straight consulting. And they're the success stories—most people (including myself) make far less per month from their products. How do people keep motivated to work on side projects when consulting is so much more profitable?

When you do consulting, you create asset for the client. But in side projects the asset can be yours. And assets may grow in value compared to consulting revenue.
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