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The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

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Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#91

Post by checkmatelib »

jonathankoren wrote: post #88
eric_b wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the basis of race and IQ I admit I am mostly ignorant of the arguments. A quick Wiki search reveals there are plenty of studies that have shown a correlation (whether the methodology was sound is under attack it seems). So while there may or may not be a correlation, it's certainly being debated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence That said, I don't think anyone is arguing we should resort to geno…

It's "debated" by white supremacists and everyone else. It's a completely bankrupt both scientifically and morally, had has been repeatedly discredited. You might as well be talking about the debate about the shape of the earth. The whole house of cards falls down with when you realize that race is a social construct, when no unifying scientific base at all. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_White_Peop…

The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study, for example, is not discredited and clearly links race to IQ. You're the one spinning narratives and calling names.

There's nothing fascist about heritable traits in populations. The fact that people are afraid to talk about it without extreme reactions from the likes of you is the problem

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#92

Post by dang »

paganel wrote: post #12

> It's easy and cheap to virtue-signal your care for this difficult problem, but the elephants in the room here are IQ and culture I don't care about IQ, but supposedly you can't tell black people to just open a book (or two, or three) and to spend more time on studying because that's racist. It is their culture to sing and care only about Italian hyper-cars and jewels (we've come a long way since the days of Public…

> It is their culture to sing and care only about Italian hyper-cars and jewels

Even in this sickening thread, with blatant violations of HN's guidelines on all sides, your comment stands out as a racial slur. That's beyond unacceptable—it's a bannable offense. I hesitate, though, because your other comments make it clear that you're approaching this from a significantly different national perspective (and, as I see below, a different familial one too). Part of tolerance is being able to recognize those differences and navigate them. So I'm going to warn you instead of ban you, even though I have to override both my instincts and a feeling of nausea at reading your comment to do so.

In turn, please extend tolerance to the rest of the community, and understand that what you posted violated the norms so badly that you won't remain welcome here if you do it again.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13280837 and marked it off-topic.

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#93

Post by garanduss »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #82
garandus wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever considered that there's a good reason for that fad? I just graduated from an elite American college, and almost everyone there was extremely condescending about the idea that race and IQ were at all correlated. They felt similarly about racial culture and success. In these powerful people's eyes, the underperformance of non-White and non-Asian races is ~100% the fault of White people and their machinati…

It's telling you created a throwaway to post this. Of course there's a good reason for that fad - scientific racism is a pseudoscience that was created in order to "prove" the inferiority of races and to justify colonialism, slavery, racism, social Darwinism, and racial eugenics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism The correlation between race and IQ is openly "admitted" right there in the into paragraph…

>It's telling you created a throwaway to post this.

I rarely comment on HN and usually just register a new account when I do. I can understand why people would register a throwaway though, considering the blind hostility people like you have in these types of discussions.

>The collation between race and IQ is openly "admitted" right there in the into paragraph of the Wikipedia page!

Wha? The lead calls it a "contentious debate" and the body cites quality sources that suggest a causal connection.

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#94

Post by garanduss »

zepto wrote: post #30
RoboticFoot wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really the data shows that discrimination is more anti-black than it is pro-white Or it shows that there is something about the statistically average black person that makes them less successful than the statistically average asian person. I don't claim to know what the difference is, but this is a fairly obvious inference to make. I'd actually say this is, a priori, a lot more likely than "everyone coincidentally…

You yourself are asserting stereotypes about Asian culture and Black culture. Racism is what happens when people are surrounded by a society that asserts such stereotypes.

The concept of culture is in many ways a stereotype of personal and group behavior, so your argument doesn't make much sense to me.

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#95

Post by ajamesm »

checkmatelib wrote: post #91
jonathankoren wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's "debated" by white supremacists and everyone else. It's a completely bankrupt both scientifically and morally, had has been repeatedly discredited. You might as well be talking about the debate about the shape of the earth. The whole house of cards falls down with when you realize that race is a social construct, when no unifying scientific base at all. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_White_Peop…

The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study, for example, is not discredited and clearly links race to IQ. You're the one spinning narratives and calling names. There's nothing fascist about heritable traits in populations. The fact that people are afraid to talk about it without extreme reactions from the likes of you is the problem

I don't think anyone has an objection to honestly studying heritable traits, including those for intelligence, but rather we object to how quickly people cherry-pick individual studies to support ideologies, without paying any heed to the general scientific consensus or other studies.

"This one study from 1976..." isn't a convincing case for establishing that link.

If there were a good meta-analysis that tied together several studies and made a reasonable, statistically-grounded case that race is tied to IQ, while simultaneously explaining the contradicting studies, the anime-avatar Race Realist crowd would be absolutely tripping over themselves to post it.

Where is it?

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#96

Post by user837387 »

RoboticFoot wrote: post #15
scythe wrote: post #11

It has to be noted that Asian people still drastically out-earn black people and are roughly "equal" with white people by city. Really the data shows that discrimination is more anti-black than it is pro-white (I think it would be helpful if Hispanics could be stratified by generation). It's also revealing of the author's personal biases that he considers living in expensive coastal cities to be a disadvantage. In ne…

> Really the data shows that discrimination is more anti-black than it is pro-white Or it shows that there is something about the statistically average black person that makes them less successful than the statistically average asian person. I don't claim to know what the difference is, but this is a fairly obvious inference to make. I'd actually say this is, a priori, a lot more likely than "everyone coincidentally…

>>Or it shows that there is something about the statistically average black person that makes them less successful than the statistically average asian person.

Being enslaved for hundreds of years and after the emancipation being denied full rights I think has something to do with that. They were purposely held back as much as possible by white people. Not sure why you cannot see this.

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#97

Post by alpsgolden »

ajamesm wrote: post #85
alpsgolden wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slavery and the holocaust were both predicated on the simple idea that one kind of human was superior so I don't feel comfortable sitting around sipping tea and debating that. On the Holocaust I'd argue the opposite point -- it was the denial of Jews genetically having a higher IQ that helped lead to the Holocaust. Jews had a level of wealth and achievement disproportionate to their population. So if you don't believ…

> A certain ethnic group (Jews, Chinese, etc) does better everywhere they go. How many Jewish populations have been dispersed or annihilated throughout history, and their story lost? Instead of arguing for scientific racism, would you consider the selection bias inherent in your assumptions.

I believe that Chua was talking about the Ashkenazi Jews. I was convinced of the "scientific racism" explanation for their achievement based on the evidence presented in the book the 10,000 The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution Paperback by Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending. Nicholas Wade, a long time writer for the New York Times also made the same arguments in his book A Troublesome Inheritance: Genes, Race and Human History although I haven't read it.

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#98

Post by ivthreadp110 »

I agree about the logic flaws in this article. As someone who works with one of the largest public college systems in the USA, yes, URM and Non_URM students do tend to give off the impression that asian americans fair better, and yes it is an illusion- however, focusing on ethnicity is a mistake when focusing on students who's parents also went to college- and pre-existing socio-economic status. Asia is much father away then mexico or what have you- it costs more to come here from asian countries then it does from hispanic contries on travel distance alone.

I don't like this article, I also don't like the URM/NON-URM status that school systems make based on ethnicity alone. There are many fields in which non_urm (meaning not white or asian) preform better- and they call these negative gaps. A gap is an ABS there is no -Gap. Pardon my spelling mistakes.

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#99

Post by ivthreadp110 »

ivthreadp110 wrote: post #98

I agree about the logic flaws in this article. As someone who works with one of the largest public college systems in the USA, yes, URM and Non_URM students do tend to give off the impression that asian americans fair better, and yes it is an illusion- however, focusing on ethnicity is a mistake when focusing on students who's parents also went to college- and pre-existing socio-economic status. Asia is much father a…

The illusion of it all is that you can measure based on "ethnicity" instead of something that matters more... such as being a first generation college student- being a first generation immigrant to the states- if you are eligible for PELL status or not. It's silly that we, the USA, still use ethnicity over socio-economic background as a measure to compare student success. When in all reality- ethnicity does not matter- it's about the culture and family you are raised in. No ethnicity is innately better then any other one. Culturally some might be more focused on education- and as a country, the United States is losing that culture because instead of focusing on future generations we focus on ethnicity and dumb shit.

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#100

Post by ivthreadp110 »

ivthreadp110 wrote: post #98

I agree about the logic flaws in this article. As someone who works with one of the largest public college systems in the USA, yes, URM and Non_URM students do tend to give off the impression that asian americans fair better, and yes it is an illusion- however, focusing on ethnicity is a mistake when focusing on students who's parents also went to college- and pre-existing socio-economic status. Asia is much father a…

This is a utter shit article- I work with these root statistics on a daily basis- yes they are bent based on what he is trying to rrove. It's the flaw having a theory then making the data prove it instead of looking at the data and coming up with a theory.

Keep bending the data fool

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