Live data from Hacker News

Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows About Them

propublica.org

51–60 of 275 posts

Re: Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows About Them

#51

> "He said users can visit a page in Facebook’s help center, which provides links to the opt-outs for six data brokers that sell personal data to Facebook." The link provided is: https://m.facebook.com/help/494750870625830?helpref=uf_perma... . LOL. The amount of personal information requested at those "opt-out" links is suspicious and/or ironic. Examples of information requested to "opt-out" of the USA partners' rea…

I thought that at first too. But they want to make sure they're removing the correct person. I don't know how else they could do it.

Re: Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows About Them

#52

There must be many HNers who work at Facebook. Anyone willing to make a throwaway account and tell us how it feels from the inside for Facebook to be one the wrong side of so many ethical issues? It just seems like in so many dimensions they've been caught saying wrong things or appearing to outright lie, and I'm curious how developers who work for them think about aiding a company that seems to be so compromised at…

i'm guessing to work for facebook the employees probably know what they're signing up for so it might not feel like "the wrong side" for them

Re: Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows About Them

#53
post #51

> "He said users can visit a page in Facebook’s help center, which provides links to the opt-outs for six data brokers that sell personal data to Facebook." The link provided is: https://m.facebook.com/help/494750870625830?helpref=uf_perma... . LOL. The amount of personal information requested at those "opt-out" links is suspicious and/or ironic. Examples of information requested to "opt-out" of the USA partners' rea…

I thought that at first too. But they want to make sure they're removing the correct person. I don't know how else they could do it.

they could make it opt-in from the beginning, but that'll never happen

Re: Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows About Them

#54
Is there anyone out there making a paid, zero advertising/data collecting social network? What if this service allowed you to buy access for 50 of your closest friends and family? I would think if it was executed properly and you provided a standard "I'm deleting Facebook and here is why, apply to join my paid for network group" post people would consider making the jump. I know there's a lot to Facebook and I wouldn't expect some new company to stack up feature for feature. Just give me chat, text/image posts and the wall and I will be happy that I can keep up with my close friends and family. I wouldn't be entirely surprised or disappointed if Apple attempted something like this on their Messages platform but I would just hope they'd make it accessible to all phone/computer/tablet users.

Re: Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows About Them

#55

There must be many HNers who work at Facebook. Anyone willing to make a throwaway account and tell us how it feels from the inside for Facebook to be one the wrong side of so many ethical issues? It just seems like in so many dimensions they've been caught saying wrong things or appearing to outright lie, and I'm curious how developers who work for them think about aiding a company that seems to be so compromised at…

I have a friend at Facebook. Yes, they do understand that some data they collect is pretty ... private. But since it's good for Facebook -- it's good for them. In all personal discussions they defend the company to the point that I started feeling like there is some mind-washing going on. Of course it's just a feeling, but my point is -- they don't think it is bad.

Re: Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows About Them

#56
post #50
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at least they have a lot less info during that time How do you know? If FB can't be trusted to actually delete your account (and they can't) how can they be trusted to stop collecting data on you?

Presumably if you've cleared your cookies and you use an adblocker, their ability to reliably track your activity goes way, WAY down. In addition to the standard protections of the adblocker and privacybadger, I also generally set a full block on all content from facebook[.com/.net] and any identifiable facebook subdomains. I really have no use for facebook, so it is zero imposition on me, and if I ever want to view…

All of those precautions are orthogonal to deleting your FB account. You can do all of those things without deleting your account (only log in using an incognito window). Deleting your account may or may not change anything with regards to FB's collection of information about you. There is simply no way to know because it is entirely up to FB what the semantics of deleting your account actually are.

Re: Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows About Them

#57

There must be many HNers who work at Facebook. Anyone willing to make a throwaway account and tell us how it feels from the inside for Facebook to be one the wrong side of so many ethical issues? It just seems like in so many dimensions they've been caught saying wrong things or appearing to outright lie, and I'm curious how developers who work for them think about aiding a company that seems to be so compromised at…

It is not wrong when you benefit from it.

This is a human trait, people do not see the wrong on the things you benefit from.

For example, did you ate beef or fish lately? When was the last time you thought about the animals that were killed in order for you to eat them. Have you seen the sacrifice of an animal needed for eating it. In Mongolia or Middle East nomads will sacrifice the animal in front of you before eating so you know what you eat is the best they have.

Imagine that cows were able to think like humans, and remember what you did to their veal. As a children I worked feeding cows and they are not as stupid as people believe, and they like horses have emotions and personalities like humans have.

When humans personally benefit from something it is very easy to just rationalize it. Humans rationalize everything.

Workers on facebook are multimillionaires that are pretty happy about their life becoming the new central intelligence of the World. They will rationalize it as a good thing focusing on this service being needed and useful for the world, as it is.

The problem is that even when the best of intentions, Governments, and secret services of countries want to use this service for nefarious purposes in the same way that if you centralize money in one place, some people want to take it by force if necessary, if you place too much personal information in some place, some people will want to take it for their own use.

Re: Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows About Them

#58
post #55

There must be many HNers who work at Facebook. Anyone willing to make a throwaway account and tell us how it feels from the inside for Facebook to be one the wrong side of so many ethical issues? It just seems like in so many dimensions they've been caught saying wrong things or appearing to outright lie, and I'm curious how developers who work for them think about aiding a company that seems to be so compromised at…

I have a friend at Facebook. Yes, they do understand that some data they collect is pretty ... private. But since it's good for Facebook -- it's good for them. In all personal discussions they defend the company to the point that I started feeling like there is some mind-washing going on. Of course it's just a feeling, but my point is -- they don't think it is bad.

Same, I have a friend who works there, often tells me about how good his stock prices are etc, never ever heard him talk about ethics, it's just not even on his radar. The other day I installed messenger (in the hope I never have to login to FB web again) and received a message about 15 seconds later saying, "Good boy, that's good for my stock prices" ha.

I know what you mean though, it's like they're trained not to discuss topics with outsiders or something?

Re: Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows About Them

#60
post #57

There must be many HNers who work at Facebook. Anyone willing to make a throwaway account and tell us how it feels from the inside for Facebook to be one the wrong side of so many ethical issues? It just seems like in so many dimensions they've been caught saying wrong things or appearing to outright lie, and I'm curious how developers who work for them think about aiding a company that seems to be so compromised at…

It is not wrong when you benefit from it. This is a human trait, people do not see the wrong on the things you benefit from. For example, did you ate beef or fish lately? When was the last time you thought about the animals that were killed in order for you to eat them. Have you seen the sacrifice of an animal needed for eating it. In Mongolia or Middle East nomads will sacrifice the animal in front of you before eat…

Ironically I'm a vegetarian for just these reasons. I don't say that because I'm perfect (I am not yet fully vegan, for example) but because I do take ethics seriously. Maybe we do rationalize too often, but shouldn't we still try to work against that impulse? The fact that something unethical benefits me generally makes me more upset, not less upset.
Post reply on HN