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Obama Strikes Back at Russia for Election Hacking

nytimes.com

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Re: Obama Strikes Back at Russia for Election Hacking

#81

Post by vkazanov »

naturally2014 wrote: post #8
vkazanov wrote: post #3

So, Clinton was corrupted, and somebody noticed it, and it is Russians who are to blame? Huh.

1) I'm not sure the corruption to which you're referring. Does it exist? Probably not. 2) I can't help but notice all your posts sympathize with Russia. You literally don't comment otherwise.

1) I think you know what I mean. If everything was all right, and there was nothing to hide - how could anybody influence anything?

2) That's probably because I am an ethnic Russian on a mostly American site.

Re: Obama Strikes Back at Russia for Election Hacking

#83

Post by rqebmm »

usaphp wrote: post #36

Some interesting articles on 1996 Boris Eltsin election, where Americans claimed their role in his win: 1 - http://articles.latimes.com/1996-07-09/news/mn-22423_1_boris... 2- http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/printout/0,8816,9848...

American political consultants != American intelligence agencies.

When Trump retained a campaign manager with ties to Russian officials[0], it was a minor scandal, not something requiring over government response.

[0] http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/15/us/politics/paul-manafort-...

Re: Obama Strikes Back at Russia for Election Hacking

#84

Post by [deleted] »

concinds wrote: post #43
colordrops wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The media is no longer proving itself worthy of the respect it has. They've been at this forever. It's just that the truth is leaking through alternative and social media so a lot more people aren't as fooled anymore.

True, but there is currently no strong competitor to fill the NYT's market. "Alternative and social media" are good for populists on both sides of the aisle, but they do not compete with the NYT. A set of strong, trustworthy centrist media outlets is desperately needed, as it's important to the political stability of a country. Without that, you end up with people joining the fringes, on both sides, and a big fat pro…

[deleted]

Re: Obama Strikes Back at Russia for Election Hacking

#85

Post by buffasden »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #64

True or not, the idea that Russia could have hacked the US elections is pretty wild, and the way this is nonchalantly discussed, and met with the mild diplomatic gesture of dismissing some diplomats is a little surprising to me. Is it because I have grown up during the end of the cold war? But what would Nixon or Reagan have done in this situation? Messing with a country's political system like that sounds extremely…

It's because there's no proof that Russia did any of this and what was done wasn't "hacking the election". It was a leak of factual information. I think a lot of people (myself included) were happy to have the information made public. I'd also be happy if such details about the RNC were made public, but they weren't. I see this more as whistleblowing than anything else and I definitely wouldn't qualify it as "hacking" especially not of "the election".

Re: Obama Strikes Back at Russia for Election Hacking

#86

Post by golergka »

cmdrfred wrote: post #46
golergka wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would americans bother with such big diplomatic presence in Russia to begin with?

They are the 2nd most powerful military in the world by some accounts and have enough nuclear weapons to destroy the planet, I think that justifies 35 full time employees. Do you have something better for them to do? http://www.businessinsider.com/11-most-powerful-militaries-i...

Oh please. So far Russian military have proved to be marginally better than Georgia and on par with Ukraine.

Speaking as someone with a lot of friends and acquaintances working in Russian military industry, it's much more talented in building potemkin villages and giving an impression of power than doing anything real. Everything, from tech to mentality of the military is rotten and just painted over.

Re: Obama Strikes Back at Russia for Election Hacking

#87

Post by rqebmm »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #64

True or not, the idea that Russia could have hacked the US elections is pretty wild, and the way this is nonchalantly discussed, and met with the mild diplomatic gesture of dismissing some diplomats is a little surprising to me. Is it because I have grown up during the end of the cold war? But what would Nixon or Reagan have done in this situation? Messing with a country's political system like that sounds extremely…

1) The Obama administration has said that retaliation will be in some part covert, so there's strong reasons to believe the publicized reaction is only the tip of the iceberg

2) If Russia hacked US elections in a material way (i.e. stuffing electronic ballots), we probably wouldn't know anyway. President Trump is much better for the United States than acknowledging that Russia can elect whoever they want.

Re: Obama Strikes Back at Russia for Election Hacking

#88

Post by matt4077 »

concinds wrote: post #31
cglouch wrote: post #9

Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but it does bother anyone that the NYT title calls it "election hacking"? To me that sort of slyly suggests that the actual election / voting process was hacked, which as far as I know did not happen. Perhaps "election-related hacking" would be more accurate. I don't mean to say the DNC and other such hacks weren't a big deal, but I worry that people who just read titles are getting th…

Ever since the election, the media has been trying to confuse people about Russia's "hacking", and keep using the phrase "hacked the election", so frequently and rigorously that it's obviously deliberate. And it worked: 50% of Democrats believe Russia hacked the election results (that's right, the results themselves, not just the DNC) according to the latest YouGov poll. The media is no longer proving itself worthy o…

Questions such as those are quite meaningless to ask. People take them as a proxy for "which side are you on" and respond accordingly.

Re: Obama Strikes Back at Russia for Election Hacking

#89

Post by golergka »

rakoo wrote: post #67
golergka wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would americans bother with such big diplomatic presence in Russia to begin with?

Because the basis for any conflict resolution is dialogue ?

It's the side who stands to lose from the conflict which usually tries to solve it. US is losing almost nothing from it strained relationship with Russia — why should it bother with it?

Re: Obama Strikes Back at Russia for Election Hacking

#90

Post by rqebmm »

w8rbt wrote: post #82

Why does no one cite the original private email server that was poorly secured and ran by the Clintons as part of this?

Because it's been covered extensively and is unrelated to the leaked DNC, DCCC, and Podesta emails that arose at the end of the election season?
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