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The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

fortune.com

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Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#131

Post by memracom »

maxxxxx wrote: post #9
smaddali wrote: post #3

While manufacturing may comeback to US, the employment in Manufacturing sector may not increase as much due to automation.

We really need economic indicators that reflect conditions for most people, not just the top few. Indicators that are often used in the news like rising GDP, house prices and manufacturing output are pretty useless if only a few get benefits from them.

The people who make money by moving plants offshore, are also behind the design of the economic indicators, knowing that if you can control what is measured then you are in charge of the conversation, and therefore in charge of the politics. That is what American oligarchs have been doing for the past 5 decades, distorting the entire system from top to bottom so that nobody can figure out what is going on. It's the same behavior of a pickpocket or a con artist.

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#132

Post by amluto »

mikeash wrote: post #124
amluto wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should have a carbon tax to properly reflect the true cost of items made and shipped so the market can choose between a locally made good and one made elsewhere. I agree, but the results may be a bit surprising. Shipping by container ship is extremely efficient [1]. On the West coast, for example, it might be cheaper (possibly far cheaper) to buy goods from Asia than from the Midwest. And wine drinkers in New Yo…

It's not so bad if your land transport uses the train. Although I'm really surprised at how unsafe trains are, according to that. Is that all from automobile/train collisions at level crossings?

I don't know, but I'd guess so. On the other hand, the N/A for nonfatal truck injuries is suspicious.

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#133

Post by dominotw »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #7

I haven't been myself but my wife is a process engineer and had to go to China to install and train people on a new machine so this is only second hand... But one of the reasons China is so good at manufacturing is because everything is in one place (or at least clusters)... need 10,000 of an Integrated Circuit? The company that makes it is literally down the street. Need some raw materials? That's down the other str…

not to mention thousands of people willing to work tedious shifts and live in cramped quarters. People willing to leave their villages and move wherever the opportunity presents. People who culturally respect authority of their superiors. People whose memory of dire poverty is still fresh.

Contrast that with Americans who have been told from birth that they are special and their life is exceptional, a philosophy that doesn't gel very well with tedious work at factories.

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#134

Post by edblarney »

KON_Air wrote: post #130

Anglo-Saxons think they can retreat to their shell and prosper again. Great news. Because it never ends badly.

Since when did Anglo-Saxons ever live in a shell?

Since when (post-Renaissance) did Anglo-Saxons not prosper?

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#135

Post by jwhitlark »

hackuser wrote: post #109
coliveira wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Producing our own food is not exciting either, but would you like to live in a place that produces no food and has to import 100% of what is needed to survive? This is the same thing here. Manufacturing is not a sexy activity anymore, but it is necessary, as long as we still live in a physical (non-virtual) world.

I believe most countries import massive amounts of food, including the U.S. It's much more efficient: Let those who can produce the food most efficiently do that, and you produce whatever you do most efficiently, then you trade. It's called 'comparative advantage' in economics. Trade is necessary for the wealth of modern economies. Self-sufficiency is North Korea's approach.

The US has been a net exported of food for a long time. The gap changes, but as far back as I looked, we've never been a net importer. The whole "amber waves of grain" thing.

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#136

Post by edblarney »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #27

I read the article and skimmed the full study and was left scratching my head: - What exactly do they mean by 'Competitiveness'? - Why so much focus on labour costs, when manufacturing cost is increasingly driven by large capital investments (especially in China, where low interest rates and government encouragement have expanded capital investments for years) - Why all the talk about R&D expenditure. Is that really…

"Why so much focus on labour costs"

Because the other things you mentioned - i.e. 'capital investments' - China does not have a huge advantage in. Yes, they have 'government participation' but US companies have access to capital, low interest rates, yada yada.

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#137

Post by sunsu »

hackuser wrote: post #109
coliveira wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Producing our own food is not exciting either, but would you like to live in a place that produces no food and has to import 100% of what is needed to survive? This is the same thing here. Manufacturing is not a sexy activity anymore, but it is necessary, as long as we still live in a physical (non-virtual) world.

I believe most countries import massive amounts of food, including the U.S. It's much more efficient: Let those who can produce the food most efficiently do that, and you produce whatever you do most efficiently, then you trade. It's called 'comparative advantage' in economics. Trade is necessary for the wealth of modern economies. Self-sufficiency is North Korea's approach.

The US is most definitely a net food exporter and it has been that way for a long time. "U.S. agricultural exports have been larger than U.S. agricultural imports since 1960, generating a surplus in U.S. agricultural trade." https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/international-markets-trade/...

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#138

Post by mc32 »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #76
coliveira wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Producing our own food is not exciting either, but would you like to live in a place that produces no food and has to import 100% of what is needed to survive? This is the same thing here. Manufacturing is not a sexy activity anymore, but it is necessary, as long as we still live in a physical (non-virtual) world.

> a place that produces no food and has to import 100% of what is needed to survive like, say, New York City? Sure! No, the rooftop garden on the Park Slope Whole Foods does not count.

NYC is part of a larger constituent unit. Japan, for example not being part of a larger state, goes to great pains to subsidize its inefficient agriculture in order that they not rely entirely on trade for their foodstuffs. It's not that they think being dependent _right now_ is an issue. The issue is what state would they be putting themselves in were large producers to put an embargo on them (or there be plagues elsewhere affecting production and thus the little which gets produced by other countries gets reserved for those countries's local consumption).

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#139

Post by WillPostForFood »

rrggrr wrote: post #77
bbctol wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been finding this graph: https://tropicsofmeta.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/2007-real-... very helpful (y-axis is percentages of GDP and workforce.) Manufacturing never left the US, in terms of output, it's just that jobs did.

This chart is almost worthless as a measure of US Manufacturing capacity or production. Why? Because sizable orders to a handful of companies (eg. Boeing, GE, Lockheed, etc.) offsets and distorts the disappearance of thousands of medium and small manufacturers over the past two decades. Its tempting to attribute the associated job losses to automation, but one look at this table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of…

I agree it is worthless, but for a different reason. All manufacturing isn't created equal. The US growth in manufacturing is largely driven by increased oil production. That isn't the manufacturing we want to have. It is not great for jobs, not great for the environment, and it isn't sustainable.

Re: The U.S. Will Surpass China as the No. 1 Country for Manufacturing by 2020

#140

Post by adammunich »

apathy wrote: post #122
empath75 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silicon Valley is called that because that's how it used to be. They actually made the chips there, and if you grew up there, you could get computer parts cheaply and easily. Jobs and Wozniak could build the Apple I in a garage only because of where they were.

shit, that was true as recently as 15 years ago, from personal experience. You can't just drive down 101 from SF and buy shit at Greybar anymore?

HSC, Anchor Electronics and Wierdstuff but that's about it
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