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Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]

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Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]

#51

Post by 1337biz »

pdimitar wrote: post #44
lmm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the UK. I always used to think that if freedom fell here it would fall everywhere. Now my government is recording internet history, and censoring depictions of my (harmless but unusual) sexual practices. I'm not yet a criminal in my homeland, but I fear it's only a matter of time. Where do I go?

Eastern Europe. Our people are one of the most chill folk in the world (together with parts of Turkey and the Nordic countries, IMO) and as long you're not living off of welfare people will judge you by how you act towards them. Not to mention most of us are very hospitable and open. Disclaimer: I am from Bulgaria. I've met countless Americans, a lot of British, loads of Eastern Europeans, some Nordics, some Turks an…

But don't you always have to suck up to the US so your country doesn't end up getting Crimea'ed?

Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]

#52

Post by beepboopbeep »

georgespencer wrote: post #48
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Austrian side of my family fled Anschluss [1]. Within this context, the hyperbolic ("I am upset about our political system") and literal ("I will likely be killed soon") uses of the term "fascist" are meaningful. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschluss

One of the most disappointing things about the last election cycle in the U.S. and Brexit here in the U.K. has been people happily accepting euphemism and hyperbole as part of political/social rhetoric. Maybe it's been happening for a while, but to me it felt like a sudden shift. Bannon is a "white supremacist" because he was accused of making a single antisemitic remark by his ex-wife, during divorce proceedings, wh…

Calling everyone and everything "Hitler" is hyperbole. Calling out behaviors, statements, and actions that align with fascism or historical precedents of fascism as such, would seem perfectly reasonable.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]

#53

Post by ryanlol »

smcl wrote: post #50
georgespencer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most disappointing things about the last election cycle in the U.S. and Brexit here in the U.K. has been people happily accepting euphemism and hyperbole as part of political/social rhetoric. Maybe it's been happening for a while, but to me it felt like a sudden shift. Bannon is a "white supremacist" because he was accused of making a single antisemitic remark by his ex-wife, during divorce proceedings, wh…

Trump was called a fascist because he wanted to create a registry of muslims and spent a good while castigating Mexicans before somehow attempting to walk it back. He was called a white nationalist because he courted extremely controversial figures like David Duke. I do think people are often too quick to go to extremes when using terms like "fascist" and "socialist" (abused by both sides), but I don't think it's a s…

>because he courted extremely controversial figures like David Duke.

Did he? I haven't really followed this, but I can't remember seeing anything even remotely suggesting this.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]

#54

Post by x0137294744532 »

georgespencer wrote: post #49
x0137294744532 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you can freely choose to leave then that's a strong indicator that your nation is not fascist. So the people who decided to flee from Nazi-Germany, the Soviet Union or North Korea were not fleeing from a fascist country?

Two points on this: 1. OP said strong indicator. It's by no means the only indicator and a state can be fascist whilst still allowing people to leave. 2. Many people who were not targets of the regime were unable to flee Nazi-Germany, the Soviet Union, and North Korea.

> 1. OP said strong indicator. It's by no means the only indicator and a state can be fascist whilst still allowing people to leave.

OP said that:

> If you can freely choose to leave then that's a strong indicator that your nation is not fascist.

I'm saying that it isn't an indicator for fascism: there is no country where every person who wants to leave, is unable to (whether it's illegal to leave is another question). Therefore, in all countries, fascist or not, there will be people who can freely choose to leave.

I think that a better indicator would be:

> If no ethnic/religious/politic/whatever group of people are prevented in a legal or physical way to leave the country, then that's a strong indicator that your nation is not fascist.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]

#55

Post by thenomad »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #23
lvs wrote: post #13

The story begins around 18:30. After listening to these folks explain the situation of refugees and their legal status in HK, one wonders a bit why EJS decided to go there as his first stop.

I work with some wealthy people. This is a fun topic and favourite topic--if the U.S. fell to fascism, where would you go. The most popular answe is Argentina. The most interesting is Kerala.

Fascinating! I wouldn't have called either of those.

Why Argentina?

Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]

#56

Post by crispyambulance »

bbcbasic wrote: post #26

The U.S. has fallen to fascism, where will you go?

US falls to fascism...where to go?

I think its a science-fiction scenario at this point. Trump is a petty authoritarian with a history of scamming and self-promotion. He will do some amount of damage but nothing irreversible state-side.

The best thing to do is to stay where you are.

There are enough sane rational people to turn things around if everything really goes to hell. Mainstream republicans won't go "all the way", there aren't enough alt-right maniacs to sustain a fascist revolution, and the honey-boo-boo crowd who actually got The Donald elected will soon enough realize/remember what it means to trust a scammer.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]

#57

Post by forgetsusername »

smcl wrote: post #50
georgespencer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most disappointing things about the last election cycle in the U.S. and Brexit here in the U.K. has been people happily accepting euphemism and hyperbole as part of political/social rhetoric. Maybe it's been happening for a while, but to me it felt like a sudden shift. Bannon is a "white supremacist" because he was accused of making a single antisemitic remark by his ex-wife, during divorce proceedings, wh…

Trump was called a fascist because he wanted to create a registry of muslims and spent a good while castigating Mexicans before somehow attempting to walk it back. He was called a white nationalist because he courted extremely controversial figures like David Duke. I do think people are often too quick to go to extremes when using terms like "fascist" and "socialist" (abused by both sides), but I don't think it's a s…

>He was called a white nationalist because he courted extremely controversial figures like David Duke.

Can explain what you mean by the use of the word "courted"?

I'm not overly familiar with the ordeal, but according to this from the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/...

It doesn't sound like he is attaching himself to David Duke in any way. Politicians (everyone, really) have to communicate with people whose politics they may or may not agree with.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]

#58

Post by barrkel »

pdimitar wrote: post #44
lmm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the UK. I always used to think that if freedom fell here it would fall everywhere. Now my government is recording internet history, and censoring depictions of my (harmless but unusual) sexual practices. I'm not yet a criminal in my homeland, but I fear it's only a matter of time. Where do I go?

Eastern Europe. Our people are one of the most chill folk in the world (together with parts of Turkey and the Nordic countries, IMO) and as long you're not living off of welfare people will judge you by how you act towards them. Not to mention most of us are very hospitable and open. Disclaimer: I am from Bulgaria. I've met countless Americans, a lot of British, loads of Eastern Europeans, some Nordics, some Turks an…

I spent about 24 hours in Bulgaria. I arrived by train in a sleeper carriage, where we (my GF and I) were pick-pocketed while sleeping. As we wandered around Sofia, I caught another pickpocket, a woman, trying to undo the zip on my shoulder bag.

I couldn't wait to get out of Bulgaria. It will be a long time before I voluntarily revisit.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]

#59

Post by [deleted] »

pdimitar wrote: post #44
lmm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the UK. I always used to think that if freedom fell here it would fall everywhere. Now my government is recording internet history, and censoring depictions of my (harmless but unusual) sexual practices. I'm not yet a criminal in my homeland, but I fear it's only a matter of time. Where do I go?

Eastern Europe. Our people are one of the most chill folk in the world (together with parts of Turkey and the Nordic countries, IMO) and as long you're not living off of welfare people will judge you by how you act towards them. Not to mention most of us are very hospitable and open. Disclaimer: I am from Bulgaria. I've met countless Americans, a lot of British, loads of Eastern Europeans, some Nordics, some Turks an…

[deleted]

Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]

#60

Post by Pigo »

pdimitar wrote: post #44
lmm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the UK. I always used to think that if freedom fell here it would fall everywhere. Now my government is recording internet history, and censoring depictions of my (harmless but unusual) sexual practices. I'm not yet a criminal in my homeland, but I fear it's only a matter of time. Where do I go?

Eastern Europe. Our people are one of the most chill folk in the world (together with parts of Turkey and the Nordic countries, IMO) and as long you're not living off of welfare people will judge you by how you act towards them. Not to mention most of us are very hospitable and open. Disclaimer: I am from Bulgaria. I've met countless Americans, a lot of British, loads of Eastern Europeans, some Nordics, some Turks an…

Interesting anecdote, never thought I'd hear a sales pitch for moving to Eastern Europe. But I must admit I've grown to appreciate the zero fucks given that is Eastern Europe. I miss when the Internet was the wild west, and used for circumventing bullshit. Now it's become where bullshit is born. I want to run naked in the streets covered in green jello (a la Denis Leary) every time I'm forced to look at social media. It would be nice to live in a place where no one suffers fools.
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