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Chrome browser for businesses

enterprise.google.com

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Re: Chrome browser for businesses

#131

Post by pdimitar »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #53
BinaryIdiot wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. It's re-enforced with Chrome's supplied dev tools which are really, really nice (I always found them far better than Firefox's built-in or Firebug). It's going to be harder to unseat Chrome. IE 6 wasn't so difficult due to an increase in competition who offered features that IE wasn't even working on (standards, tabs, etc). How would you even unseat Chrome?

>"How would you even unseat Chrome?" I won't directly mention the project that's best placed to do that, as it's not yet ready for primetime, but let's just say Chrome may not have the performance crown in the next 5 years. Also, aside from on the Mac, what's holding back Firefox? I accept that the Mac version seems to have more problems than the Windows or Linux versions (I have no technical explanation for this, it…

As another poster in this thread mentioned: bookmarks and other personal data syncing. Allowing 3rd party sync servers would go a long way towards Chrome projecting the message they don't want to lock you in but that's probably not the case -- if we judge by their team's [lack of] actions.

(And don't get me started on services like XMarks. They're miles behind.)

Re: Chrome browser for businesses

#132

Post by radicalbyte »

dingaling wrote: post #73
jpochtar wrote: post #61

Is anyone else concerned that this means IT can choose to hold back the version of Chrome in their organizations? Auto-updating Chrome has been low key one of the best solutions to the pain of backwards compatibility with older browsers. In the past we not only had to worry about compatibility between browsers, we had to worry about compatibility between browser versions. Further, auto-updating Chrome as dramatically…

Companies have far too much internal plumbing to permit browsers to auto-update themselves. Being feature-compatible with the latest SV-poster-child website is insignificant compared to maintaining stability for the tax-management team's internal web app. I was once involved in an IE6 -> IE8 upgrade for a Fortune 100 corporation. It took nine months to analyze all the possible impacts and implement mitigations before…

The problem is that Chrome remove features without providing any viable replacement.

For example Flash: currently the Chrome audio APIs do not cover all of the functionality provided by Flash. You cannot, for example, pause the recording of audio.

If you have a product which requires that functionality then you're stuck. You can't upgrade.

In the recent past I was in just that position: we had no choice but to block Chrome upgrades, at least until such a time as we could implement the functionality ourselves.

It would be much better if Chrome would just leave the functionality in there; or maybe provide a special "Enterprise" build which includes all of the features behind feature flags. All they need to do is make that configurable by Group Policies and you've made Enterprises happy (and we can keep upgrading the core browser).

Re: Chrome browser for businesses

#133

Post by Endy »

Quenz wrote: post #95
krzyk wrote: post #18

Is this about replacing one monopoly with another? It is slowly starting too look like in the early 00's, most developers are starting to support only chrome, with no testing in Firefox or latest IE. On Android it is even worse, no one is testing with Firefox Mobile (Fennec) - this is WinXP-IE6 all over again.

One day every webpage will render the same in every browser. One day...

Doubtful, because someone will come up with their own proprietary rendering engine in a free browser, with some minor built-in feature people want; and then we're back where we started.

PS - I miss Presto-based Opera.

Re: Chrome browser for businesses

#134

Post by DougN7 »

tomelders wrote: post #122
dingaling wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies have far too much internal plumbing to permit browsers to auto-update themselves. Being feature-compatible with the latest SV-poster-child website is insignificant compared to maintaining stability for the tax-management team's internal web app. I was once involved in an IE6 -> IE8 upgrade for a Fortune 100 corporation. It took nine months to analyze all the possible impacts and implement mitigations before…

I think this is a weak argument. The problem here is that companies think that software can exist in some sort of "done" state, where no further updates or development is required. That has never been true. The hardware and software changes. The infrastructure it connects to changes. But most importantly, your workflows must evolve if you are to remain efficient. If you roll your own software, you either commit to co…

I question if you've worked with large enterprises. They freeze everything for a decade or more. Think about a bank with 500 offices, a dozen tellers at each office. Having their internal web app that everyone uses go down because of an auto upgrade could cost them hundreds of millions. They have a very different risk appetite.

Re: Chrome browser for businesses

#135

Post by Endy »

my123 wrote: post #91
greglindahl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll be interesting to see if this causes some "no open source, even if a support contract can be purchased" policies to get changed.

Chrome never was open source, and never would be.

But it includes open-source elements.

Re: Chrome browser for businesses

#136

Post by nothrabannosir »

radicalbyte wrote: post #132
dingaling wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies have far too much internal plumbing to permit browsers to auto-update themselves. Being feature-compatible with the latest SV-poster-child website is insignificant compared to maintaining stability for the tax-management team's internal web app. I was once involved in an IE6 -> IE8 upgrade for a Fortune 100 corporation. It took nine months to analyze all the possible impacts and implement mitigations before…

The problem is that Chrome remove features without providing any viable replacement. For example Flash: currently the Chrome audio APIs do not cover all of the functionality provided by Flash. You cannot, for example, pause the recording of audio. If you have a product which requires that functionality then you're stuck. You can't upgrade. In the recent past I was in just that position: we had no choice but to block…

> You cannot, for example, pause the recording of audio.

You can use the Web Audio API (getusermedia) and set an audio pipeline filter that stops sending data while a boolean flag is set.

I don't know if you mean a different API entirely, and I don't mean to disagree---just FYI :)

Re: Chrome browser for businesses

#137

Post by fbender »

alkonaut wrote: post #103
Pica_soO wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, yes, and the yells of "Over budget, we can not afford new machines for the whole team, just because your app is not 386 backwards compatible." And the partial rollouts, with teams being split into and stuck- and demanding you hack together tooling on the fly to allow for work to continue anyway. And the horrible cross-application databases, which would went inconsistent if you didn't include basically a reduced d…

You wouldn't have to use antiquated tools and practices just to use desktop apps. I'm not arguing to use the old apps, I'm arguing that a lot of new development should be desktop when it's often made as web apps without thought. We threw all the good stuff with desktop out at the same time as we moved to intranets. You can still have centralized deployment, thin clients etc, but have the niceties of proper native app…

> (good multi screen/multi window support, better, good support for complex interactions like shortcuts, ctrl-clicks etc).

Totally do-able on the web. It's often the web apps architecture that prevents a good UX, not the browser's capabilities (which are really good now).

> Even on mobile […] we can't make web based apps that are better than native ones.

That's an issue of the developer, not the browser itself. I do admit that Safari/iOS is really hurting here but you can work around that if you really want to (it will still be a sub-par UX, though).

Re: Chrome browser for businesses

#138

Post by tomelders »

DougN7 wrote: post #134
tomelders wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a weak argument. The problem here is that companies think that software can exist in some sort of "done" state, where no further updates or development is required. That has never been true. The hardware and software changes. The infrastructure it connects to changes. But most importantly, your workflows must evolve if you are to remain efficient. If you roll your own software, you either commit to co…

I question if you've worked with large enterprises. They freeze everything for a decade or more. Think about a bank with 500 offices, a dozen tellers at each office. Having their internal web app that everyone uses go down because of an auto upgrade could cost them hundreds of millions. They have a very different risk appetite.

Ive actually been working in banks mainly. But on the business side.

At the upper echelons there is a real appetite for change. Banks realise that they have become software companies, but that their businesses are groaning under the weight of antiquated systems and processes and it is holding them back.

But even the board can only affect so much.

The only reason an auto update would take down an app is if all development has stopped. As part of the process you should be testing against upcoming releases of chrome so you spot these problems well in advance.

But if dev has stopped, then yes, you will have a problem.

Re: Chrome browser for businesses

#139

Post by Jean-Philipe »

dingaling wrote: post #73
jpochtar wrote: post #61

Is anyone else concerned that this means IT can choose to hold back the version of Chrome in their organizations? Auto-updating Chrome has been low key one of the best solutions to the pain of backwards compatibility with older browsers. In the past we not only had to worry about compatibility between browsers, we had to worry about compatibility between browser versions. Further, auto-updating Chrome as dramatically…

Companies have far too much internal plumbing to permit browsers to auto-update themselves. Being feature-compatible with the latest SV-poster-child website is insignificant compared to maintaining stability for the tax-management team's internal web app. I was once involved in an IE6 -> IE8 upgrade for a Fortune 100 corporation. It took nine months to analyze all the possible impacts and implement mitigations before…

> Companies have far too much internal plumbing to permit browsers to auto-update themselves.

What plumbing might prevent a browser update? I can't think of a good use case.

Re: Chrome browser for businesses

#140

Post by simonw »

Jean-Philipe wrote: post #139
dingaling wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies have far too much internal plumbing to permit browsers to auto-update themselves. Being feature-compatible with the latest SV-poster-child website is insignificant compared to maintaining stability for the tax-management team's internal web app. I was once involved in an IE6 -> IE8 upgrade for a Fortune 100 corporation. It took nine months to analyze all the possible impacts and implement mitigations before…

> Companies have far too much internal plumbing to permit browsers to auto-update themselves. What plumbing might prevent a browser update? I can't think of a good use case.

Poorly written intranet web apps that break between browser versions. Especially likely if those apps were only tested in one specific browser -especially if it was an older version of MSIE.
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