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Tesla footage of braking before crash ahead [video]

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Re: Tesla footage of braking before crash ahead [video]

#291

Post by tobz »

logicallee wrote: post #127

I think the most exciting thing (and we're way behind schedule on this, a lot of this could have easily been done literally 30 years ago, no problem at all), is caravan functionality, where a group of cars moves together. If you imagine 20 cars at a standstill for some reason, if they begin to move forward slowly but at the same time (less than 50 millisecond apart) because they're coordinated then they can get up to…

I think you're trivializing even the required effort to coordinate two cars, let alone multiple cars.

How do you direct the signal to only cars in your lane? In your direction of travel? How much efficiency is lost if all of the drivers don't give themselves enough space between the car in front of them and their own vehicle? Now they have to wait to move forward. How do you get all drivers to roll forward together at the same rate of acceleration?

You could have the last few questions handled by a computer, but you'd still have to overcome a lot of other hurdles (namely location awareness, peer-to-peer communication, infrastructure changes to road signals if you don't have self-driving cars which can detect light states, etc) before you could even accomplish something this simple at scale.

Re: Tesla footage of braking before crash ahead [video]

#292

Post by glenntzke »

79d697i6fdif wrote: post #170
sytelus wrote: post #67

This is great video to study on many levels beyond self-driving car. Some observations: * The car behind didn't show turn signal so probably driver wasn't paying attention. * A small car escaping with not too much damage while SUV rolls over many times * From physics point of view, the car behind produced almost perfect torque that started horizontal spin on SUV * Collisions with barrier at high speed can produce lot…

The biggest thing I noticed was just how easily SUV's flip over. This has been a problem forever I'm just surprised that regulators don't take more notice of it. Rollovers are far more likely to result in injury or death. Most cars just don't flip, all the traction their tires have is simply not enough to do it on flat ground. Yeah anything could flip over once you go off the road but the SUV in this looks like a rol…

I was in a very bad accident when a GMC pickup t-boned my 98 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS at ~55mph. My car crumpled and was totaled but took the hit and went for a 4 wheel slide across the road. A nice balanced car takes hits really well. And I'm very glad I wore my seatbelt.

Re: Tesla footage of braking before crash ahead [video]

#293

Post by LanceH »

willvarfar wrote: post #86
LanceH wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if you really want the brakes on full when you get hit from behind. It seems the cars would start to crumple in place until firmly together and you overcome friction, getting launched. With the brakes off, you would immediately accelerate, but perhaps with a lesser initial burst. That's the decision I had to make one day. I saw a car coming to hit me from the rear. I took my foot off the brake and gripped…

I think you misread me. I was suggesting the computer don't put the break on full when stationary, but only enough to keep the car still (as the road may not be flat etc).

I was just using your comment as a starting point.

Re: Tesla footage of braking before crash ahead [video]

#294

Post by cylinder »

79d697i6fdif wrote: post #170
sytelus wrote: post #67

This is great video to study on many levels beyond self-driving car. Some observations: * The car behind didn't show turn signal so probably driver wasn't paying attention. * A small car escaping with not too much damage while SUV rolls over many times * From physics point of view, the car behind produced almost perfect torque that started horizontal spin on SUV * Collisions with barrier at high speed can produce lot…

The biggest thing I noticed was just how easily SUV's flip over. This has been a problem forever I'm just surprised that regulators don't take more notice of it. Rollovers are far more likely to result in injury or death. Most cars just don't flip, all the traction their tires have is simply not enough to do it on flat ground. Yeah anything could flip over once you go off the road but the SUV in this looks like a rol…

Because people think these SUVs are "safer" due to their size. And then it becomes an arms race; you see the highway full of large SUVs, and you feel vulnerable in a tiny compact car, because you think they will crush you in a collision, so others start buying SUVs to "protect" themselves. These land-beasts might be comfortable but they are unsafe, take an excess and unfair amount of space on the road, consume too much fuel, and trigger arms race. They need to be regulated to death for most users.

Re: Tesla footage of braking before crash ahead [video]

#295

Post by mikeryan »

Tloewald wrote: post #224
dragonwriter wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autopilot would take over trucking even if it was no safer than humans under the current safety regime applied to human drivers, simply because it could drive nearly 24/7 without degradation, improving asset utilization.

I think you underestimate the ability of the trucking industry to poorly maintain automatic pilot systems.

The trucking "industry" is probably pretty okay with losing drivers - its the only class of employees affected and they've had a shortage of qualified drivers for years [1]. Heck there will be a whole new class of higher paid mechanics and technicians maintaining the auto-pilot systems. There will also undoubtedly be a higher bar government mandated maintenance for self driving trucks.

They're almost incentivized for this change.

[1] http://cerasis.com/2016/05/03/driver-shortage/

Re: Tesla footage of braking before crash ahead [video]

#296

Post by LanceH »

svarrall wrote: post #34
LanceH wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if you really want the brakes on full when you get hit from behind. It seems the cars would start to crumple in place until firmly together and you overcome friction, getting launched. With the brakes off, you would immediately accelerate, but perhaps with a lesser initial burst. That's the decision I had to make one day. I saw a car coming to hit me from the rear. I took my foot off the brake and gripped…

The opposite, you should release the brakes to reduce the effect of the impact so you actually acted correctly.

Thanks, the scientist part of me said this was correct. That just left a conflict between the experimentalist part of me and what my wife will allow.

Re: Tesla footage of braking before crash ahead [video]

#297

Post by geocar »

loeg wrote: post #280
geocar wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and then pushed into the car in front of you . Same reason to use the handbrake at a crosswalk/zebra crossing: You don't want someone reckless behind you to make you cream some poor folks.

That's not a reason to use the handbrake over the brake pedal. Typically the brake pedal is more effective (all wheels, ABS) than the hand brake (sometimes 2 wheels, probably no ABS). The handbrake is just for emergencies and parking.

When I learned to drive in the US (Washington state) I received advice similar to that, however when I took lessons in the UK, I was advised that when you are rear ended, you will have a hard time keeping pressure on the break pedal so you should do both.

Re: Tesla footage of braking before crash ahead [video]

#298

Post by amalcon »

notheguyouthink wrote: post #264
fixermark wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely the problem. Safe follow distance isn't an evolutionarily-stable strategy. The number of accidents avoided by people following it is more than offset (at least psychologically in the minds of the drivers) by the perception that people are constantly cutting you off if you adhere to it. Since punishments for failing to adhere to it are few and far between, drivers get sloppy. It's the sort of thing you could…

> It's the sort of thing you could, however, program into a robot and expect the robot to adhere to it. I've often wondered what people will initially do when being driven around by a robot. How anxious will it make them feel, not to give up control, but to see a robot driving "so slowly". Not going 10 over, letting other drivers in when possible, always slowing to keep a safe distance, not passing aggressively if so…

The freight vehicle or bus is pretty similar to a robot today. They have much stiffer penalties for speeding, much more difficulty changing lanes (including often being banned from passing lanes), and much more difficulty stopping. Experienced truckers and bus drivers do all of these things.

No surprise, everyone hates them.

Re: Tesla footage of braking before crash ahead [video]

#299

Post by bryondowd »

79d697i6fdif wrote: post #170
sytelus wrote: post #67

This is great video to study on many levels beyond self-driving car. Some observations: * The car behind didn't show turn signal so probably driver wasn't paying attention. * A small car escaping with not too much damage while SUV rolls over many times * From physics point of view, the car behind produced almost perfect torque that started horizontal spin on SUV * Collisions with barrier at high speed can produce lot…

The biggest thing I noticed was just how easily SUV's flip over. This has been a problem forever I'm just surprised that regulators don't take more notice of it. Rollovers are far more likely to result in injury or death. Most cars just don't flip, all the traction their tires have is simply not enough to do it on flat ground. Yeah anything could flip over once you go off the road but the SUV in this looks like a rol…

Anecdotally, my former gf managed to flip my Taurus by striking a parked car on the road at 15mph. Police verified that she wasn't moving faster because she practically flipped it in place, rather than ending up a significant distance away. Just a case of hitting at just the right angle and riding it up, I guess.

Re: Tesla footage of braking before crash ahead [video]

#300

Post by jdavis703 »

devrelm wrote: post #269
elif wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know your situation, but my experience driving big heavy stuff is that sometimes a yellow light does not provide enough warning to stop 55mph * crazy weight, and you sometimes find yourself with a dilemma of entering an intersection just after a light has changed, or a few seconds after the light has changed.

Right. I actually wonder how self-driving Semis will handle such a situation. Given that it's all math at that point, I wouldn't doubt if regulations surrounding minimum yellow-light timing are updated to more accurately represent the stop time of heavy loads. Otherwise it should be easy to prove in court that stopping in time would be impossible given the speed limit & weight restrictions (or lack thereof) in place…

You shouldn't be driving a vehicle through a non-freeway (i.e. a road with stop lights) at a speed where you can't stop in time. In many jurisdictions that is considered reckless driving. If your vehicle is too heavy then you (or the software) needs to slow it down.
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