Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

About Those Air Cushions in Amazon Packages

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 236 posts

Re: About Those Air Cushions in Amazon Packages

#191

Post by spodek »

Disruptive_Dave wrote: post #187
developer2 wrote: post #119

> frustrated customers on forums discussing how many air-filled cushions they were getting > while deflated air cushions can be recycled, many cities won’t collect them curbside Pop them, put them in recycling. It's plastic, it's not my job to deal with the fallout. Either it's recyclable and I've done all I can, or it's the retailers' or cities' problem. The idea that there are "frustrated customers" is beyond me. I…

In Brooklyn we now have four (FOUR!) different containers for trash in our little apartment. Since I was a kid and recycling began as "a thing" it's gotten more and more complex and expensive on the consumer's end. Shouldn't this process be trending the other way?

In Manhattan I have three but add the fourth -- composting -- myself voluntarily, which isn't curbside. I have to walk it to the park where they collect it only at certain times.

Why?

Because it helps me reduce my landfill trash to where I empty it 3 to 4 times per year. Actually, I've reduced my recyclable trash to nearly the same levels.

Re: About Those Air Cushions in Amazon Packages

#192

Post by noarchy »

djrogers wrote: post #87
noarchy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live (in Canada) they tend to use balls of dough in the middle of the pizza to get the same effect, instead of the piece of plastic I've seen elsewhere.

Where in Canada? Turns out it's a pretty big country ;-) I grew up in the Vancouver area and never saw dough balls. [1] comments like this are a bit of a peeve of mine as they contribute to the global mental picture of Canada as one homogeneous biosphere instead of a huge land mass with many different cultures and environments. Ever heard this one - "Oh, you're from Canada? My brother in law is from Canada; Jake Unra…

Apologies, I had meant to include my area in my original post. I'm in the Ottawa-Gatineau area. I've seen this done around Montreal, too.

Re: About Those Air Cushions in Amazon Packages

#193

Post by userbinator »

abalone wrote: post #130
pedalpete wrote: post #68

I think there are two opportunities for the environmental effects of the air cushions. 1) Re-use rather than recycle: What if you could let the air out at home, open up the bag, stuff it with other bags, and the outside of the bag had a postage paid stamp. It goes back to the company that made the bag so it can be re-used. 2) Make them out of compostable plastic. Much simpler than above, probably the better way. The…

The compostable idea is so much better than mailing them back because of the transport cost. In fact compostable air cushions exist: http://www.fpintl.com/biodegradable_packaging_cello_bubble_w...

Except that biodegradable packaging means the manufacturer needs to continue producing (and distributing) it, which incurs its own cost.

Re: About Those Air Cushions in Amazon Packages

#194

Post by gm-conspiracy »

akanet wrote: post #144
developer2 wrote: post #119

> frustrated customers on forums discussing how many air-filled cushions they were getting > while deflated air cushions can be recycled, many cities won’t collect them curbside Pop them, put them in recycling. It's plastic, it's not my job to deal with the fallout. Either it's recyclable and I've done all I can, or it's the retailers' or cities' problem. The idea that there are "frustrated customers" is beyond me. I…

This is very irresponsible. The reason soft plastics are unrecyclable curbside in San Francisco is that they pose a very real danger to the machines that do recycling sorting. This is possible to overcome with greater manual filtering of recyclable materials, but Recology currently does not have the funds for it. Putting soft plastics in curbside recycling at the moment does nothing but make recycling worse for every…

How much does municipal recycling cost in San Francisco?

Is it a net profitable endeavor (energy in vs out)?

What are the recycled materials being used for, and what are the costs to get the material into that state?

Re: About Those Air Cushions in Amazon Packages

#196

Post by gm-conspiracy »

gumby wrote: post #152
anexprogrammer wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be right. I don't have answers. I'm not sure anyone does. I've often wished it were easier to see all the externalities and environmental issues in our stuff. So I can make decisions with my eyes open. I think it's likely we're making many poor choices for the right reasons at the moment. I'd be surprised if unbleached brown paper, screwed up as padding, came out worse environmentally than oil derived plastic…

> I'd be surprised if unbleached brown paper, screwed up as padding, came out worse environmentally than oil derived plastic. I would not be surprised; the production even of unbleached Kraft paper is quite energy intensive and environmentally bad (look up "black liquor" for example). Oil derived plastics (not very nice either by any stretch of the imagination) appear to use less energy to produce and of course much…

I would like to see the numbers (dollars and calories) on what it costs to recycle these materials, including transport and collection costs.

It appears the trend is to externalize the sorting of materials, as this appears to be the most expensive part.

Are there dedicated paid human sorters? Would people volunteer to help in such a way?

Re: About Those Air Cushions in Amazon Packages

#197

Post by blowski »

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #188
akanet wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very irresponsible. The reason soft plastics are unrecyclable curbside in San Francisco is that they pose a very real danger to the machines that do recycling sorting. This is possible to overcome with greater manual filtering of recyclable materials, but Recology currently does not have the funds for it. Putting soft plastics in curbside recycling at the moment does nothing but make recycling worse for every…

To put in tech terms: This is horrible UX and it's no surprise to me that recycling isn't very effective. Asking your end users to deal with your internal complexity doesn't work in software or in recycling. I want to help out, really I do, but I have more important things to worry about than which type of plastic goes in which bin. Hell, I'm happy to put the right kind of thing in the right bin if they made it clear…

Much innovation in the last 20 years has been finding ways to get your customers to do work for free that you previously paid employees to do instead.

For example, self-service checkouts in supermarkets, fast food, building a holiday package, etc.

Recycling is the same. They have 'outsourced' much of the job to local government and consumers.

Re: About Those Air Cushions in Amazon Packages

#198

Post by siquick »

taurath wrote: post #131
abalone wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If plastic bags are not curbside recyclable then throwing them in the bin doesn't help. Consumers absolutely do bear responsibility for the environmental impact of their consumption choices.

Consumption choices is a strange term when every store surrounding someone does double plastic bags all day. If the city is concerned, address the problem at the source and not the leaves where I gaurantee you no amount of social pressure will have anywhere near the effect.

You could always ask them not to double bag, or take your own bags...

Re: About Those Air Cushions in Amazon Packages

#199

Post by Lukas_Skywalker »

ido wrote: post #184
Lukas_Skywalker wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Switzerland, recycling is done by the city administration. Put things in the wrong bin, get fined (and quite aggressively so). Instructions are sent to you when you move into the city and every year to every household. Works really well [1] (recycling rates: Glass 95%, aluminium 90%, paper 90%, plastic bottles 80%, batteries 70%). Also, no landfills at all, everything is burned, air is filtered and heat is used fo…

How do they know who put what in which trash can?

Highest fines are for putting plastics/glass/large metals in the roadside bags that are picked up. They usually try to find an address label or similar inside the bag to identify you.

For public trash cans: It happens that private security hides around the cans to control. I was once fined about 40 USD for putting paper in the paper bin on sunday at noon. They hid around the corner.

Re: About Those Air Cushions in Amazon Packages

#200

Post by gumby »

morsch wrote: post #164
gumby wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your point is here. The whole point of recycling paper is to avoid cutting down trees (and as a minor secondary point reduce landfill, though most paper is compostable). Paper recycling is quite energy and chemical intensive when compared to virgin paper production. If you want to talk about "sustainable" and consider planting trees to be fine, then you don't want to recycle. I don't consider cuttin…

Conventional wisdom is that recycled paper uses less resources than new paper. https://archive.epa.gov/wastes/conserve/materials/paper/web/... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_recycling

The box on the first link summarizes the benefits pretty well, thanks.

Still, I am not yet convinced vs the lifetime oil consumption & carbon release of paper packaging vs plastic.

Post reply on HN