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Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

theguardian.com

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Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#11

Post by zubspace »

How can they refuse to provide the recordings in case of a warrant? It makes no sense. They even acknowledge that the device is not always-on and therefore probably not useful. Because of bad publicity?

If the police stands in front of my house with a warrant to search my belongings, can I refuse that? Does it make sense if I have nothing to hide?

The recordings of the water meter is more interesting and the possible combination with other devices, including the Echo. In case of a housing with lots of IOT-Devices the police could reconstruct the actions within based on the stored information, like when did someone eat, turn on the lights, wash hands, open the door, watch TV...

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#12

Post by jfoutz »

zubspace wrote: post #11

How can they refuse to provide the recordings in case of a warrant? It makes no sense. They even acknowledge that the device is not always-on and therefore probably not useful. Because of bad publicity? If the police stands in front of my house with a warrant to search my belongings, can I refuse that? Does it make sense if I have nothing to hide? The recordings of the water meter is more interesting and the possible…

> If the police stands in front of my house with a warrant to search my belongings, can I refuse that?

Well, if you live in Seattle and the police are from Arkansas, yeah. They can ask, just like i could ask to search your house. Out of the state that grants them authority, they're just guys with a piece of paper.

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#13

Post by Hondor »

superkuh wrote: post #10

More importantly, the headline should read: "Police use high time resolution data from modern water meter against man charged with murder." Basically this Abstruse Goose comic, http://abstrusegoose.com/553 , about the dangers of utility data logging have come true. The greater the time resolution of such things the more can be inferred. Such high resolution is completely uneeded and complex in order to just charge fo…

Isn't it a good thing to record data that helps solve a murder? The police are still getting it with a warrant and presumably from physical access to the device, so it's not the same worry as bulk monitoring.

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#14

Post by gm-conspiracy »

HugoDaniel wrote: post #7
thrillgore wrote: post #4

First thought that comes to mind is: If Amazon lets the police access the Echo it would prove they're constantly listening, even if the device is in "Mute" mode Which is really the main reason why I have avoided these smart speakers. Encrypt them all you want. Send a NSL and all the sudden you've made wiretapping that easier. And that would be very bad for business.

nevermind your smartphone

...or you live somewhere with glass windows.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_microphone

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#15

Post by [deleted] »

HugoDaniel wrote: post #7
thrillgore wrote: post #4

First thought that comes to mind is: If Amazon lets the police access the Echo it would prove they're constantly listening, even if the device is in "Mute" mode Which is really the main reason why I have avoided these smart speakers. Encrypt them all you want. Send a NSL and all the sudden you've made wiretapping that easier. And that would be very bad for business.

nevermind your smartphone

[deleted]

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#16

Post by smileysteve »

zubspace wrote: post #11

How can they refuse to provide the recordings in case of a warrant? It makes no sense. They even acknowledge that the device is not always-on and therefore probably not useful. Because of bad publicity? If the police stands in front of my house with a warrant to search my belongings, can I refuse that? Does it make sense if I have nothing to hide? The recordings of the water meter is more interesting and the possible…

> If the police stands in front of my house with a warrant to search my belongings, can I refuse that?

Yes, if your legal team denies it as overly broad. They can also file an injunction. This is why you call a lawyer as soon as the police arrive w/ a warrant or ask you questions.

> Does it make sense if I have nothing to hide?

Yes. Because you value your privacy of hobbies and speech.

> I have nothing to hide.

The average person breaks 3 laws a day. Whether that's speeding, texting while driving, having your friend over who left a dirty sock that smells like marijuana over. The police are "rewarded" when they find evidence of any crime, not just the one you are accused of.

Not a great example of having nothing to hide, but a great example of a broad search that found an entirely different crime. Survivor contestant, Michael Skupin, was having financial documents searched by police when they found kiddie porn was sentenced yesterday.

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#17

Post by FroshKiller »

zubspace wrote: post #11

How can they refuse to provide the recordings in case of a warrant? It makes no sense. They even acknowledge that the device is not always-on and therefore probably not useful. Because of bad publicity? If the police stands in front of my house with a warrant to search my belongings, can I refuse that? Does it make sense if I have nothing to hide? The recordings of the water meter is more interesting and the possible…

A warrant is not the same as a subpoena. But look, "the innocent have nothing to hide" is an insidious and wrong idea. If people and corporations don't assert their rights against the will of the state, they erode the foundation of our shared liberties.

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#18

Post by gm-conspiracy »

ryanlol wrote: post #5
thrillgore wrote: post #4

First thought that comes to mind is: If Amazon lets the police access the Echo it would prove they're constantly listening, even if the device is in "Mute" mode Which is really the main reason why I have avoided these smart speakers. Encrypt them all you want. Send a NSL and all the sudden you've made wiretapping that easier. And that would be very bad for business.

>First thought that comes to mind is: If Amazon lets the police access the Echo it would prove they're constantly listening, even if the device is in "Mute" mode Yeah, but this is entirely ridiculous. It's trivial for anyone with access to the device to verify that it most likely doesn't do that.

I like your qualifier, "most likely".

How would one determine if it is not buffering and compressing data client-side for later transmission during "firmware" updates?

Additionally, who has setup an automated testing framework for such things after each firmware upgrade?

How many firmware upgrades have there been for the Echo?

Also, how do we know that your Echo and my Echo are running the same firmware, and will always run the same firmware version?

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#19

Post by forgetsusername »

FroshKiller wrote: post #17
zubspace wrote: post #11

How can they refuse to provide the recordings in case of a warrant? It makes no sense. They even acknowledge that the device is not always-on and therefore probably not useful. Because of bad publicity? If the police stands in front of my house with a warrant to search my belongings, can I refuse that? Does it make sense if I have nothing to hide? The recordings of the water meter is more interesting and the possible…

A warrant is not the same as a subpoena. But look, "the innocent have nothing to hide" is an insidious and wrong idea. If people and corporations don't assert their rights against the will of the state, they erode the foundation of our shared liberties.

>But look, "the innocent have nothing to hide" is an insidious and wrong idea

Very much agree, because there's a difference between being "innocent" and actually innocent. Only the former matters, it's subjective (jury/judge) and unknown to everyone but you, ex ante.

Sometimes the police are more invested in finding a criminal rather than the criminal.

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#20

Post by gravypod »

smileysteve wrote: post #16
zubspace wrote: post #11

How can they refuse to provide the recordings in case of a warrant? It makes no sense. They even acknowledge that the device is not always-on and therefore probably not useful. Because of bad publicity? If the police stands in front of my house with a warrant to search my belongings, can I refuse that? Does it make sense if I have nothing to hide? The recordings of the water meter is more interesting and the possible…

> If the police stands in front of my house with a warrant to search my belongings, can I refuse that? Yes, if your legal team denies it as overly broad. They can also file an injunction. This is why you call a lawyer as soon as the police arrive w/ a warrant or ask you questions. > Does it make sense if I have nothing to hide? Yes. Because you value your privacy of hobbies and speech. > I have nothing to hide. The a…

Do you have a citation for the 3 times a day figure? I'm not disagreeing because I belive it's true. I'd just like to see some real data.
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