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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#471

Post by dragonwriter »

return0 wrote: post #349
oddlyaromatic wrote: post #238

Here's a pickle: I agree with the direction of this article, but I don't agree with most of the individual points and statements. I think the expectation of tipping in the US is in general a bad thing, but has enough upsides for business owners and some higher-earning servers (and even some customers) that it will be hard to dislodge. I also think the incentive for any business to change is probably not as high as th…

> has enough upsides for business owners and some higher-earning servers You don't need to mandate tips from everyone and their brother to do it. High-earning servers who serve the specialty needs of the rich will always earn their high tips. It's the fact that it's expected from everyone that's annoying.

> You don't need to mandate tips from everyone and their brother to do it.

Tips are never mandated.

Re: No tipping means better business

#472

Post by [deleted] »

return0 wrote: post #349
oddlyaromatic wrote: post #238

Here's a pickle: I agree with the direction of this article, but I don't agree with most of the individual points and statements. I think the expectation of tipping in the US is in general a bad thing, but has enough upsides for business owners and some higher-earning servers (and even some customers) that it will be hard to dislodge. I also think the incentive for any business to change is probably not as high as th…

> has enough upsides for business owners and some higher-earning servers You don't need to mandate tips from everyone and their brother to do it. High-earning servers who serve the specialty needs of the rich will always earn their high tips. It's the fact that it's expected from everyone that's annoying.

[deleted]

Re: No tipping means better business

#473

Post by hayd »

veridies wrote: post #375
coreyp_1 wrote: post #321

I think that tipping as a percentage of the meal cost is absolutely idiotic. I have never gotten good service at an expensive restaurant, and yet the receipt gives you the math for 18%, 20%, and 22% tips. I have gotten good and bad service at cheap restaurants (something like Steak and Shake), and tip accordingly. The "work" is not anything different between the two jobs. Just take my order, bring me my food, and ref…

It's a progressive charge. If you have more money to spend, a lot of the time you'll end up spending more on desserts, drinks, etc. Then you pay a greater amount of money for the service. If you have less to spend, you'll buy fewer things, and pay a smaller charge.

It's a tax on generosity.

Re: No tipping means better business

#474

Post by logfromblammo »

Johnny555 wrote: post #443
jghn wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one thing they have no idea if you have a legitimate complaint, are someone who has such high standards that it's not worth catering to, or simply a cheap bastard. They care strongly about the former, will shake their head at the middle and will dislike you if it were the latter. If you actually speak up they'll have a better idea.

If the manager has no idea whether or not the service warranted a 0% tip, then that's the problem right there. It's his job to know that.

My point was that if the service was bad enough to not leave a tip, complaining to the manager might result in you not paying for the food, either.

You can demand that the bill be discounted or waived entirely (or that what you paid be refunded) if you didn't get what you were expecting. For instance, if you walk out of a movie because the sound was a half second out of sync and the picture was out of focus, you could just eat the price of the ticket, or you could find a manager and get your money back for the low, low cost of just voicing what was wrong with your experience.

What else would you do? Angrily write a bad Yelp review in your car?

Re: No tipping means better business

#475

Post by isostatic »

rdl wrote: post #134
snovv_crash wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great until you start getting threats of arrest for stuff you didn't do as bribe solicitation.

Also bad: running afoul of Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (if you're an American or in a business which has any connection to the US).

Certainly bribes (or "tips" as many Americans call them) are illegal for U.K. Citizens.

Re: No tipping means better business

#476

Post by ensignavenger »

ydt wrote: post #366
throwaway2016a wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One is the idea of a percentage I've always found this odd too. Say for a special occasion I decide to go to a high end steakhouse... mid-range bottle of wine, two nice steaks, a'la cart sides, appetizer, and desert we're at $500. That's $100 at 20%. Did that person really do more work than the person I tipped $10 at Chili's (an american casual family restaurant)? > Another inconsistency is where to tip I usually e…

Here's the thing. I worked in the restaurant business in various capacities all through college. As a cash transaction, it will come as no surprise that a lot of tips go unreported as income. From time to time the IRS will decide the reported income from a restaurant seems low and audit the staff. It was generally understood that if you had reported 10% of your sales as a server/bartender as tip income you'd be ok. I…

How would they be "in trouble"? You mean the IRS is going to ask them scary questions? Or does the IRS really go around fining people with no more evidence than "Well, we think that maybe you earned more in tips than you reported, because someone else reported that they earned more..." Any CPAs or tax attorneys care to share their experiences? I can't see how the latter could be legal.

Re: No tipping means better business

#477

Post by oddlyaromatic »

return0 wrote: post #349
oddlyaromatic wrote: post #238

Here's a pickle: I agree with the direction of this article, but I don't agree with most of the individual points and statements. I think the expectation of tipping in the US is in general a bad thing, but has enough upsides for business owners and some higher-earning servers (and even some customers) that it will be hard to dislodge. I also think the incentive for any business to change is probably not as high as th…

> has enough upsides for business owners and some higher-earning servers You don't need to mandate tips from everyone and their brother to do it. High-earning servers who serve the specialty needs of the rich will always earn their high tips. It's the fact that it's expected from everyone that's annoying.

Yes, it is annoying. My point is just that it being annoying doesn't mean that is easy to solve, or that the cost of solving the annoyance in a non-systematic way is worth it (i. e., trailblazing restaurants forge ahead on their own, instead of, say, legislation about it).

Also, most proposed solutions seem to involve raising the base cost to the customer... at which point the customer is no better off, and has instead lost the freedom to tip low or nothing if they choose, for whatever reason, to do so.

Tipping is not mandated, though. Unless there is an automatic service charge, in which case it is not exactly tipping. It's just a fee, like your parking or anything else to be factored in to the overall cost of the meal.

Re: No tipping means better business

#478

Post by saint_fiasco »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #356
makecheck wrote: post #342

Tipping is also extremely inconsistent in at least three ways. One is the idea of a percentage: how does that make any sense? When I go out for a rare nice dinner and the tip alone ends up being $20 or so, I ask myself: did this person/restaurant really do any more than the server of the last entire meal that cost $20? Of course not, and yet somehow it would look weird to pay $40 for a $20 meal with tip, for the same…

> One is the idea of a percentage I've always found this odd too. Say for a special occasion I decide to go to a high end steakhouse... mid-range bottle of wine, two nice steaks, a'la cart sides, appetizer, and desert we're at $500. That's $100 at 20%. Did that person really do more work than the person I tipped $10 at Chili's (an american casual family restaurant)? > Another inconsistency is where to tip I usually e…

It could be an incentive. Some customers are more valuable than others and using percentages means the employees will be extra nice to high-value customers and not waste too much time on the low-value customers.

Of course they should be nice to everyone, but if it is a busy day and they have to choose, the restaurant owners would prefer that they prioritize the ones who spend more.

Re: No tipping means better business

#479

Post by angryasian »

pzh wrote: post #55

The problem with no tipping, in my experince (especially in Europe), is that waiters aren't incentivized to turn tables. If you go to a popular spot for dinner that happens to be completely full and ask for a table, the waiter will usually shrug their shoulders and say 'Sorry, try again tomorrow.' Usually, there is no concept of a waiting list or a waiting time estimate, because diners are conditioned that they can s…

Then this is a problem with management that doesn't care to offer a certain level of customer service. Management should make a policy and make things up front. If their staff can't carry out their expectations, then fire them and bring in new staff. It shouldn't be the customers that do a managers job.

Re: No tipping means better business

#480

Post by oddlyaromatic »

gkuan wrote: post #450
demosito666 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is tipping somewhat mandatory in the US? Everywhere I've been it's up to the customer to decide if he wants to leave the tip. What if I won't leave tips?

In some places, the wait staff will grab you on your way out and notify you that you didn't tip enough (say 20% instead of 30%).

Like the other commenter, I've never had this happen. If I tipped way below what other customers tip, I would like to be told politely and then make a choice about whether I was going to tip more, but I think even that would be frowned upon by business owners or managers. Usually, if I'm not sure (such as a service I rarely use), I will ask somebody what a typical tip looks like. A good example is a buck a bag for bell staff at a hotel - or $5 a bag for Skycaps, if you would like them to ignore the weight of your bag ;)
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