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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#461

Post by angryasian »

demosito666 wrote: post #391
oddlyaromatic wrote: post #238

Here's a pickle: I agree with the direction of this article, but I don't agree with most of the individual points and statements. I think the expectation of tipping in the US is in general a bad thing, but has enough upsides for business owners and some higher-earning servers (and even some customers) that it will be hard to dislodge. I also think the incentive for any business to change is probably not as high as th…

Is tipping somewhat mandatory in the US? Everywhere I've been it's up to the customer to decide if he wants to leave the tip. What if I won't leave tips?

some places will auto add tips to your bill, regardless of party size

Re: No tipping means better business

#462

Post by isostatic »

rdl wrote: post #96
microtonal wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you view tipping as an obligation it sucks, but once you view it as a chance to get what you want it is great. If you have the money to tip for such amounts. All others will just the lower quality service. Coming from a Western European country that does not have much tipping, I think I like egalitarian customer service more ;). (Not meant as a personal attack, just to point out that it's not feasible for everyone…

The thing is tipping is usually after service, so if it is single round game, you can free ride. I'm actually glad that people visually like me (techie upper middle class white American business traveler) seem to have a good reputation worldwide for tipping well -- it means I get service as if I'd tip well even beforehand. What would suck is being a black guy or otherwise profile as not likely to tip (French?) but be…

You keep saying "tip". I think you mean "bribe".

Re: No tipping means better business

#463

Post by branchless »

Jemmeh wrote: post #453
branchless wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me I'm thinking of "the service industry", the lower end. Here employees are low-skill, therefore at the mercy of employers who can swap them out for a less testy serf if required. Those further up the value chain have more of a give-and-take relationship with their employer, the supply/demand curve is more in the favour of the employee. The employee has better savings and is not facing missing next week's rent i…

It is a different dynamic. The minimum wage needs to be up, but I wouldn't go from saying that to "shut down all restaurants". Not sure about what could be done about supply/demand. They are low skill jobs. Most people could learn to do them pretty quickly. That doesn't mean they don't deserve to be paid properly-- the current economy is creating those jobs, we still need service people. They are working hard. But as…

Well as I stated in the same column where I provide the link, I've not read it, I doubt you have in this time either.

That said, the system creates these imbalances so I would not look to simply treat the symptom.

Progress depends on a deficit of cheap labour to encourage automation. Globalisation has seen companies move manual low-skill jobs to other countries. Meanwhile land prices are up and so are rents. People must take what they can get whilst the usurers run rampant.

Re: No tipping means better business

#464

Post by angryasian »

turndown wrote: post #123
okonomiyaki3000 wrote: post #75

Having lived in Japan for a long time, I kind of dread visiting America because of the whole nonsense of tipping (and lot of other reasons, really). There's simply no concept of it here and yet the service is excellent. I don't know what the typical wage is but I know people who work in service jobs and seem to have a lot more disposable income than their counterparts in the US. I also know people who work as servers…

I've worked as both a server and a delivery driver, and even after having left both jobs I'd still be in favor of tipping because I think it incentivizes the worker to do well at their job. The US simply doesn't have the same culture Japan has. That said, travelling to the US shouldn't be handicapped by a fear of tipping. Don't tip, or do, but not going because of it is an unfortunate choice.

>it incentivizes the worker to do well at their job

The entire point of being a server is to offer the customer a pleasant dining experience.. that is literally the major job qualification in customer service. Are you saying that people that work in retail aren't incentivized to do their job because they don't receive tips. I think its absurd, because if you ever work retail, you take much more crap from customers on top of working just as hard.

Re: No tipping means better business

#465

Post by idunno246 »

zeroer wrote: post #91
surrealvortex wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also don't understand tipping at food carts. Customers stand in a line to pay and get their food, and are also expected to tip (either via Square or through tip jars). Edit: the expectation is generally implicit, and while standing in line, I can't help but notice that most customers hit the minimum tip percentage on Square, which is usually 15%

IIRC with a few extra clicks on Square you can find a menu that will give you a "no tip" option. It's definitely hidden on purpose.

ive never seen a square display without a no tip option, and I'm pretty sure the restaurant is who decides what options are there

Re: No tipping means better business

#466

Post by ensignavenger »

jackptfh wrote: post #373
throwaway2016a wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One is the idea of a percentage I've always found this odd too. Say for a special occasion I decide to go to a high end steakhouse... mid-range bottle of wine, two nice steaks, a'la cart sides, appetizer, and desert we're at $500. That's $100 at 20%. Did that person really do more work than the person I tipped $10 at Chili's (an american casual family restaurant)? > Another inconsistency is where to tip I usually e…

Yes, on average the server at the high end restaurant did substantially more work, and they performed it more expertly. they were better able to answer questions and offer suggestions (including off-menu changes that might help you). They timed your meal for your enjoyment rather than for turnover. They made sure you had fresh silverware, a clean table, and a full glass. They coordinated your bar, wine, and food orde…

That has generally not been my experience... but I have never spent $500 on a meal before, so my experience is with the lower to mid-tier priced establishments.

Re: No tipping means better business

#467

Post by jghn »

hsitz wrote: post #447
seangrogg wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that point it is just the psychological impact you allow suggestions to have on you. One could probably make an "employee-owned" store (WinCo, Trader Joes) with lovely staff and get away with doing this to sweeten the pot for employees.

You say "just" the psychological impact. Which is of course true, but I would leave out the "just" and emphasize that, yes, this is all about psychological impact. I go to these kind of POS restaurants/coffeshops all the time, and I can't recall one where it didn't have a tip screen. I know of several that are also set up so that "no tip" is not even one of the options, the only easy options you have are to select 10…

If you try hard you can make it so they don't see it but usually they will. When I see people click through far enough to get to that point they almost universally have left 0% which IMO speaks to that psychological impact. They don't want to leave anything but feel bad not doing so.

Me? I'm a sucker for those things. For one I admit that I don't want to seem like a cheapo, and then on top of it it's often at most a buck or two that we're talking about, not a big deal. So I fall for the scam and click the button that leaves money.

Re: No tipping means better business

#468

Post by dragonwriter »

logfromblammo wrote: post #357
kutkloon7 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20% is also a big part of the bill, and if you go out everything is overpriced already.

The standard tip for table service at a restaurant in the US is 15%.

There is considerable upward pressure on that, with many recommending an 18% or 20% norm (and restaurants themselves are actively part of this with the tip hints they provide on bills.)

Re: No tipping means better business

#469

Post by jghn »

logfromblammo wrote: post #454
jghn wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for at least a decade, more in larger cities.

A percentage-based tip scales with the prices on the menu, which are closely associated with the cost of living in a particular area. A 15% tip is exactly as appropriate in 2016 as it was in 1916. It works as well in Florence, Alabama, as it does in Baltimore, Maryland. The only reason to increase the percentage of table service tips is if the restaurant employee does more for the customer. I have not observed this t…

As logical as that might sound the tipping percentage is a matter of cultural norm and not about maintaining a status quo. In metropolitan areas 20% has long since been the standard and is arguably increasing. The rest of the country has been steadily catching up.

Re: No tipping means better business

#470

Post by jaclaz »

concerned_user wrote: post #110
gkoberger wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, it's more of a cultural thing. In the US, waitstaff is expected to be attentive and stop by constantly. In other countries, they're expected to leave you alone unless you need them, so you can enjoy your meal without being annoyed. For example, in many countries, they'll never approach you or bring you a check until you flag them down to ask. I think it's less about tipping, and more about customs.

That actually might explain the problem. I live in EU, at my local cafe place which is quite large ~40 tables I usually see 2 cooks, 1 barista and 3 servers even when its 90% full in the evening (1-2 servers in the morning or during day when its 50% full). Yes, wait times are quite long, usually takes good 20 minutes and you only interact with a server 3 times at most, when you make an order, they bring you food and…

Italy here.

Speaking of restaurants (not "cafe's") i.e. where you actually have lunch or dinner, (which means normally at least two courses) the number of servers is function of the level of the place, it is more or less "coded".

The range goes from "bad" or "slow" service which is 1 server every 25 people to "excellent" or "fast/responsive" which is 1 server every 8 people.

You won't find 1/25 if not in really cheap places, nor 1/8 if not in really expensive ones, average is 1/12 to 1/16.

Leaving the table free after having eaten is exclusively cultural, no waiter will ever dare to tell you to free the table or bring you the bill if not asked for, with the rare exception of long time customers with which there is confidence, in which case the waiter may ask this as a personal favour, on the other hand any long time customer will notice that the place is full and leave the table free as soon as possible.

Good restaurants (and capable waiters) can understand from a number of signals if you are in just for a quick meal or if you are in for a meal at leisure and serve you accordingly.

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