A fast and entertaining take on this topic: "Why Tipping Should Be Banned - Adam Ruins Everything" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k
No tipping means better business
431–440 of 550 posts
Re: No tipping means better business
#432Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that it's a mistake to think that because all POS systems used at restaurants support tips and you interact with that system up front at fast casual restaurants, therefore a tip is expected up front at those restaurants; it's generally not (and I've even seen some such places that use touchpad rather than write-on-reciept entry for tips pre-select "no tip"); virtually every source I've seen recommends that, i…
You're absolutely right however I'd argue that the presence of that tip line there leads people to feel bad and leave something there, which starts the feedback loop going to the point where it is/will be expected
At that point it is just the psychological impact you allow suggestions to have on you. One could probably make an "employee-owned" store (WinCo, Trader Joes) with lovely staff and get away with doing this to sweeten the pot for employees.
Re: No tipping means better business
#433Earlier quoted context omitted.
I too love to cook. For myself in my time. I keep the surplus value I create and enjoy it. In the past when working in a cafe I've not enjoyed being ordered about by people who know I cannot afford to answer back.
Okay, thanks I wasn't sure if it was satire, because some people say an extreme thing to make a point. Well a lot of that comes from tipping culture and low pay. Like you need to lick my shoe in order to get your $3 tip. It's a power dynamic-- you're reliant on their money, so you're lower than them. And society looks down on restaurant workers in general as lazy people. People's views on restaurant workers needs to…
Yes I wouldn't say every minute of my time in a cafe was bad. I enjoyed producing, adding value etc. The tips didn't really come into it much for me because my base wage was enough. It wasn't going to make or break my week.
The power dynamic comes from creating a system where people are forced to work to meet their largest expense: rent.
Re: No tipping means better business
#434Earlier quoted context omitted.
All of these things you describe, fall under what I consider "their job"
So assume that if they (and the back of the house, in the event of tip pooling) were paid a meaningful base wage it would have cost 20% more for the experience of dining at the restaurant. Do a calculation and add that to the check, because that's what you would be paying if we didn't have tip culture.
The thing is... people are okay with that. It's how most every other country works. Americans are paying it anyways, the only difference is sometimes the waiter(ess) gets shafted because the business outsources the responsibility to their customers.
Re: No tipping means better business
#435A lot of the advice here is good and has nothing to do with tipping. Pay your staff well, don't add service charges (adding "fees" for "health care" is a counterproductive political statement), just charge a fair price that covers your costs. I love going to places that include sales tax in the advertised price. I would never return to a restaurant that nickel and dimed me for their health care expenses.
But I also love tipping generously. I don't believe poor service should be punished with a poor tip. More likely poor service means your server is also having a really bad, overworked day and deserves the tip more. But I guarantee if you tip well every time you go to a local restaurant regularly you will get spectacular service after a few times.
As for non Americans who are confused by tipping, it's no more important or intimidating than typical expected manners in other countries. In Paris shopkeepers expect you to say bonjour and au revoir and cashiers expect you to have exact change. There'll always be cultural gotchas when you travel. If you're unsure whether to tip it's totally acceptable to ask.
Re: No tipping means better business
#436I think that tipping as a percentage of the meal cost is absolutely idiotic. I have never gotten good service at an expensive restaurant, and yet the receipt gives you the math for 18%, 20%, and 22% tips. I have gotten good and bad service at cheap restaurants (something like Steak and Shake), and tip accordingly. The "work" is not anything different between the two jobs. Just take my order, bring me my food, and ref…
Wholeheartedly agree. I feel like these numbers were just made up. Who decided 10% is good? or 20%? Why is it a percentage? This whole system is absurd to me. If we follow the same logic then why don't programmers get "tips" when they do a nice commit message? or deliver on time? why are servers so different? Just saying it out loud makes me giggle because of how silly it sounds.
> This whole system is absurd to me. If we follow the same logic then why don't programmers get "tips" when they do a nice commit message? or deliver on time? why are servers so different?
Because they are making below minimum wage (something like $2.00 and change per hour, iirc) - and tips are to cover the rest.
So maybe, if you were in the same situation as a software developer, you would want a good tip for good service.
But you're not. We're not. We're are typically salaried, or work on some other contracted rate. It is fairly fixed, and perhaps if we do really good work, and the employer is generous, we'll get a bonus. Sometimes.
But don't pretend that we need tips. We don't. Typically we make several times the amount of minimum wage, and in most cases we are in the top 10% or more of wage earners (at least here in the United States).
Re: No tipping means better business
#437Earlier quoted context omitted.
Okay, thanks I wasn't sure if it was satire, because some people say an extreme thing to make a point. Well a lot of that comes from tipping culture and low pay. Like you need to lick my shoe in order to get your $3 tip. It's a power dynamic-- you're reliant on their money, so you're lower than them. And society looks down on restaurant workers in general as lazy people. People's views on restaurant workers needs to…
Yes I wouldn't say every minute of my time in a cafe was bad. I enjoyed producing, adding value etc. The tips didn't really come into it much for me because my base wage was enough. It wasn't going to make or break my week. The power dynamic comes from creating a system where people are forced to work to meet their largest expense: rent.
That's true of any job though. Why single out restaurants?
I'm all for automating jobs in general, but we're not there yet.
Re: No tipping means better business
#438Tipping is also extremely inconsistent in at least three ways. One is the idea of a percentage: how does that make any sense? When I go out for a rare nice dinner and the tip alone ends up being $20 or so, I ask myself: did this person/restaurant really do any more than the server of the last entire meal that cost $20? Of course not, and yet somehow it would look weird to pay $40 for a $20 meal with tip, for the same…
It also, to some extent, favors appearance over service.
Somehow, this seems to speak significantly to life in the U.S.
Of course, attractiveness is favored, everywhere. But in the U.S., we make it central to career success -- perhaps a bit more and in a wider range of roles than elsewhere in the world.
And we often fool ourselves, favoring physical appearance over reciprocity.
Re: No tipping means better business
#439Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe a high end specialty restaurant that is selling an experience, but I'd be surprised if you could actually compete with a place like McDonalds on cost. Fries and a hamburger are about the easiest thing to make, requiring no special equipment. The ingredients are a lot cheaper than buying at McDonald's, too. If you have more than one person eating, then the cost savings can really add up.
> Fries and a hamburger are about the easiest thing to make, requiring no special equipment. For all practical purposes of modern urban life, you at least need some kind of specialized heating apparatus. More importantly, somewhere to store that apparatus. Which is quite often a kitchen. In San Francisco, the median housing cost per square foot is almost $1,000. A small kitchen is defined as 70 square feet, or $70,00…
There's also the fact that you can't just buy enough to make one hamburger and some fries. At a minimum, you can buy enough to make 2-3 hamburgers (and you'll have leftover buns, cheese, etc). So now you have to store that extra stuff (more sq footage and refrigeration costs). You might not eat it all (and it goes bad, meaning you throw it away). Or you might freeze it for later (maybe - some things you can't freeze of course).
Re: No tipping means better business
#440Having worked in the restaurant industry for over 12 years, started as a bus boy at 15 years old, then waiter, then bartender and finally moved to General Manager of the whole place. I can tell you that tipping is absolutely necessary. I can say that the article is dead wrong about this. Tipping is the best thing that's ever happened to the US Restourant business. Especially at great establishments with repeat custom…
But in US - restaurants is not the only place you tip. A 20% tip on $40 bill amount to $8, which is okayish. 10% would be perhaps okay for most people. But recently I moved home and paid $850 to movers for 6 hours of work(4 guys and a truck), the 20% of that would be $170. I paid $40 in tips and yet I felt guilty and I thought I heard some grumbling between movers. Similar thing happened when I took a cab from Denver…
>As a personal not born in US, I am always unsure how much I should tip.
Honestly, as an American, I think everyone has different ideas, even those born here. You can see it right here in these comments! That contributes to the anxiety people have around here about tipping. There's even a joke about it on Seinfeld - "How much do you tip a chamber maid?" It was a long back and forth about how much is customary to tip a hotel chambermaid and nobody could agree on it. The person who suggested the most ended up being a criminal who the local news described him as a "generous tipper." Later on George realizes he forgot to tip her entirely.
When I was growing up (poor, lower class) I was taught that 10% was a customary tip. When I got to be an adult and I started my job as a software engineer I've noticed people seem to tip 20% so I moved to 20%. I don't know if its just my family who tips 10% or its just the upper class who tips 20%? Who knows? Someone here even suggested 10% and got downvoted for it.
I wouldn't think to tip movers. We had some people come with a truck and haul away some stuff, were we supposed to tip them? Were we supposed to tip the furniture delivery people? :/ I am sorry if I accidentally stiffed them.