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Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

nytimes.com

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Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#101

Post by wil421 »

zeroer wrote: post #41
th0ma5 wrote: post #2

Surprised it doesn't mention the somewhat unspoken agreement that at least some of tip wages go unreported by those that receive them, although, I guess that is possibly disappearing with the increase in credit card tipping perhaps?

If you really like your server, pay the bill with a credit card, but leave no tip on the card, then pay the tip with cash.

At one restaurant I worked at you would be flagged in the system if reported tips were less than 15% of total sales. The managers would ask you and make sure you are reporting accurately. 20% is the norm in my area.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#102

Post by gommm »

wil421 wrote: post #100
gommm wrote: post #57

> Tips are also handled differently in different states, but in New York, by law, they can be pooled and distributed only to “front of house” employees: those who work in the dining room, like waiters, bartenders and backwaiters (formerly known as busboys). That really makes no sense to me. When I go to a restaurant, I value the food a lot more than the service. I've come back again to restaurants where I hated the s…

The kitchen staff are paid much higher hourly and usually work full time. If you heard what kitchen staff say about customers you probably wouldn't want to tip them. For example when I was a waiter we made $2.13 an hour. Kitchen staff were usually in the $10-$15 range and many of them got overtime. Tipping is just a way for owners to increase profits by passing more cost to the customer.

Ok, in the article, they mentioned: > “There was regularly a 500 percent deficit between the back of the house and the front of the house,” said Abram Bissell, the executive chef of the Modern. “Like every kitchen in New York, we were having trouble attracting and retaining talent at that pay grade.”

and

>An experienced line cook who carries $40,000 in debt from years of culinary school earns $12 an hour, while a new server can reap three times that much.

So it was my understanding that the Kitchen staff weren't paid that well. Also, I don't really care what they say about customers as long as the food is great :) They're not customer facing anyway.

But yes I do agree, tipping is just a way for owners to increase profits by passing more costs to the customer. It's exploitative and it creates bad incentives in term of customer interactions. I don't think that the customer service in restaurants is better in the US than in countries without tipping culture but on the other hand, I've seen quite a bit of pushy obnoxious behaviors from waiters that were trying to increase their tips.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#103

Post by citizenkeen »

wil421 wrote: post #100
gommm wrote: post #57

> Tips are also handled differently in different states, but in New York, by law, they can be pooled and distributed only to “front of house” employees: those who work in the dining room, like waiters, bartenders and backwaiters (formerly known as busboys). That really makes no sense to me. When I go to a restaurant, I value the food a lot more than the service. I've come back again to restaurants where I hated the s…

The kitchen staff are paid much higher hourly and usually work full time. If you heard what kitchen staff say about customers you probably wouldn't want to tip them. For example when I was a waiter we made $2.13 an hour. Kitchen staff were usually in the $10-$15 range and many of them got overtime. Tipping is just a way for owners to increase profits by passing more cost to the customer.

This is a state-by-state thing in the US. In my state, there is no alternative minimum wage for waitstaff - they make the same wages as the kitchen staff.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#104

Post by erroneousfunk »

tmnvix wrote: post #34
adiabatty wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two or three decades ago 15% was modal (and it might still be), but I hear the mean crept up to 18% sometime in the past five years.

Interesting. I wonder why. Maybe compensating for stagnating wages? Or maybe falling food and beverage costs (in relative terms)?

I live in the US and have noticed the same phenomenon. I assumed it was just social pressure and growing awareness of inequality and poor living conditions of some wait staff. Giving an extra $2 is an easy way to feel good about yourself. Then more people started doing it, and to keep feeling good about yourself you had to tip more and more. I'll give exactly 15% if the service is bad, 20% if it's good.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#105

Post by wil421 »

gommm wrote: post #102
wil421 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kitchen staff are paid much higher hourly and usually work full time. If you heard what kitchen staff say about customers you probably wouldn't want to tip them. For example when I was a waiter we made $2.13 an hour. Kitchen staff were usually in the $10-$15 range and many of them got overtime. Tipping is just a way for owners to increase profits by passing more cost to the customer.

Ok, in the article, they mentioned: > “There was regularly a 500 percent deficit between the back of the house and the front of the house,” said Abram Bissell, the executive chef of the Modern. “Like every kitchen in New York, we were having trouble attracting and retaining talent at that pay grade.” and >An experienced line cook who carries $40,000 in debt from years of culinary school earns $12 an hour, while a new…

You are talking about high end restaurants in New York. Chains and smaller mom/pop restaurants and not hiring line cooks with degrees.

Servers do make much more money but sometimes having steady pay and full time benefits can even out. Being a career cook can earn high pay later and/or you can even start you're own restaurant.

Front of house can be rude and pushy in US and abroad. The one difference I've seen in the US is they are slightly more attentive but its also not really needed. The customers demand it at this point. Latin America was much much slower than US or EU. Italy had a decent balance between too little or too much attention. EU were not as friendly but it wasn't necessarily a bad thing.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#106

Post by zeroer »

chrisseaton wrote: post #50
glibgil wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes

It seems crazy to me that you're doing this as a kind of social service for the waiter or waitress, while helping to withhold owed tax revenue that could be used for other people who may be in need of social services.

Crazy? Come'on, that's a bit strong, no?

I have philosophical disagreements with a large portion but not all of my governments spending. Giving it to a waiter seems like a much better use of my money.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#107

Post by wutbrodo »

monort wrote: post #86
wutbrodo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really shouldn't believe whatever you hear: whoever told you that grossly misinformed you. Even if we assume that "spent on nukes" is hyperbole for "spent on the military", the military is 16% of the federal budget, absolutely dwarfed by the rest of the budget (which mostly consists of items fairly described as public services). And that's the federal budget alone: state taxes obviously don't even have _that_ sma…

Imagine you are not required to pay taxes and everything is voluntary. Would you donate to an entity, that spends just 16% of donation on killing people? Why do you feel different when this entity is your government?

I'm not interested in your irrelevant pet political issue: FWIW, I'm far from an advocate of reflexive govt action or high military spending. Neither of those views warrant misleading implications about tax dollars going to nukes and not social services.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#108

Post by wutbrodo »

tmd83 wrote: post #97
wutbrodo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really shouldn't believe whatever you hear: whoever told you that grossly misinformed you. Even if we assume that "spent on nukes" is hyperbole for "spent on the military", the military is 16% of the federal budget, absolutely dwarfed by the rest of the budget (which mostly consists of items fairly described as public services). And that's the federal budget alone: state taxes obviously don't even have _that_ sma…

16% is small? what would be considered big?

Uh, the 84% that does go to services? I should have known that correcting an inaccurate insinuation would only bring out those who are incapable of thinking without their preferred political lens.

If someone says "taxes go to social services" and is responded to with "no they go to nukes" it's entirely relevant to point out that something like 6x the spending goes to services than to the military.

For those of us who aren't desperately trying to pattern match everything into a tired old political script that they have a hope of comprehending: I didn't say anything about whether I think it _should_ be higher or lower.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#109

Post by golergka »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #95
golergka wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a luxury service?

You can cook your own food, cut your own hair, park your own cars, and so on. Instead, you are paying another human to do these things for you, sometimes waiting on you in the process. Most of the things we tip for we can go without. How are these not luxury services?

Most of the things you described are cheaper to pay to a specialist to so than the cost of education and time to perform yourself.

Cooking your own food and cutting your own hair with the same quality is the real luxury. Never driven a car so don't know anything about that.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#110

Post by Broken_Hippo »

golergka wrote: post #109
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can cook your own food, cut your own hair, park your own cars, and so on. Instead, you are paying another human to do these things for you, sometimes waiting on you in the process. Most of the things we tip for we can go without. How are these not luxury services?

Most of the things you described are cheaper to pay to a specialist to so than the cost of education and time to perform yourself. Cooking your own food and cutting your own hair with the same quality is the real luxury. Never driven a car so don't know anything about that.

Cooking is one of those things that you get better with practice, and it doesn't need to be expensive to get fairly high quality. You just might not meet McDonald's pricing. That time thing you are speaking of? Well, that's a luxury if you aren't doing it yourself (or a member of your family), and can be overcome by habit. Poor folks do it all the time.

Haircut? Simple style, doesn't actually take much time or energy and the tools cost about the same as a cheap haircut.

The car is slightly better put another way, then: Taking a taxi instead of readily available mass transit. The first is simpler and easier and often quicker, the second cheaper but takes more work and walking on your behalf.

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