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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#251

Post by crazygringo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #243

Maybe I'm ruining it for everyone, but when I've gone to New York's budding "no tip" restaurants, I've thrown a cash tip on the bill. Guess what happened next? I was asked my name, and the next times I went, I got seated faster, comped chef's recommendations and a generally friendlier interaction with my server. Same thing happens abroad, where the locals don't tip well. I don't understand how people get shocked by f…

As a New Yorker, I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Tips are flat-out refused at the no-tip restaurants. And the idea that your tip was tracked in a database and that you actually got better service the next time because of it is entirely in your mind, I'm sorry.

There's actually a tremendous amount of research on incentives, and they don't always result in the behavior you'd think.

Re: No tipping means better business

#252

Post by po »

tjic wrote: post #184
grecy wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse still, tipping is merely a way of keeping class hierarchies, and it's disgusting. When a person walks into a restaurant in the USA they can waive a $20 bill at a waitperson and say if you do what I want, and if I like you, and if I'm feeling generous, I might give you some of this. Of course, they might not too. Labor laws, minimum wage, etc are all there to make this illegal in a work contract, and it should b…

> When a person walks into a restaurant in the USA they can waive a $20 bill at a waitperson and say if you do what I want, and if I like you, and if I'm feeling generous, I might give you some of this. So you also dislike bonuses for white collar professionals? Because it's exactly the same thing.

Because it's exactly the same thing.

A bonus is paid to you by your company (evaluated by your boss) and is more like profit sharing.

A tip is paid directly by the customer. The customer has no way of knowing if you are being paid a living wage or not. They have different incentives if they are a regular or not. The waiter at a busy restaurant will see hundreds of customers a day, but the customer may only interact with this waiter once. The waiter understands the house systems and knows how to maximize tipping. These are all ways that the waiter has an information advantage and can wield it against the customer. Maximizing tipping and providing good service to everyone are seldom the same thing.

People like to think that tipping puts the customer in power but it really just sets up the customer to be gamed. This aspect doesn't exist when we're talking about bonuses with your employer.

Re: No tipping means better business

#253

Post by NikolaeVarius »

crazygringo wrote: post #251
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #243

Maybe I'm ruining it for everyone, but when I've gone to New York's budding "no tip" restaurants, I've thrown a cash tip on the bill. Guess what happened next? I was asked my name, and the next times I went, I got seated faster, comped chef's recommendations and a generally friendlier interaction with my server. Same thing happens abroad, where the locals don't tip well. I don't understand how people get shocked by f…

As a New Yorker, I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Tips are flat-out refused at the no-tip restaurants. And the idea that your tip was tracked in a database and that you actually got better service the next time because of it is entirely in your mind, I'm sorry. There's actually a tremendous amount of research on incentives, and they don't always result in the behavior you'd think.

I concur.

A no tip restaurant would NEVER take your tip. How the hell would they divy up the 10 bucks if top you give them among the entire staff?

Best case scenario the waiter pocketed it.

Re: No tipping means better business

#254

Post by freeflight »

hayd wrote: post #198
zuppy wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it does. Tipping is expected even if a bad service is being provided. I live in a country where you have to give tips everywhere and everywhere the service is awful. Why not be fair and pay the employee well (and also pay taxes for that amount). edit: I was thinking about how to award good employees and I think it's simple: give a small paper form at the end, where people will provide ratings for the se…

The difference between bad service and good service might only be 15% vs 20% and IME most American's do not tip punitively anyway, and tip the same no matter what. The employer is in a much better position to assess staff performance than customers... And it's not the customers job. If a waiter sucks they won't fire themselves just because they're only getting 15% tips.

>The employer is in a much better position to assess staff performance than customers... And it's not the customers job.

I disagree, after all it's the waiter who interacts with the customer most, while the employer mostly can only watch from afar or has other (better) things to do.

In that regard a 5% difference on the tip won't do much at all. If the waiter expects to get tipped anyway, regardless of how bad the service was, then he's far more likely to give bad service and just get 5% less tip.

But if getting any tip at all depends on the quality of service, then waiters at least have to try to deliver some decent service, instead of just doing an half-arsed job and getting their "guaranteed", although somewhat smaller, tip.

Re: No tipping means better business

#255

Post by mgbmtl »

pc86 wrote: post #202
mikosty wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add mental strain of thinking should I and how much should I tip. Also hassle if you don't happen to have change readily available. Sometimes it's just easier to go to a place where you don't have to think this.

Mental strain, really?

I would say it definitely contributes to "decision fatigue".

Re: No tipping means better business

#256

Post by ceejayoz »

Mithaldu wrote: post #180
bluedino wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I also don't want to waste my precious time on paying the tip for calculating tax. 20% is an easy calculation. Move the decimal point over one, and double. $24.30 becomes $2.43, doubled you get $4.86 which is your tip. Round it up to $5 if you want. Did you really enjoy the service? Add another $2 or $3. Terrible waiter? Subtract $2 or $3.

Try doing 20% on an american credit card bill when you're drunk and leaving the house, where it wants you to write down the total AND the difference. It's completely retarded in every conceivable way.

Just write the total. No need to calculate the difference - leaving it blank works fine 100% of the time.

Re: No tipping means better business

#257

Post by JumpCrisscross »

crazygringo wrote: post #251
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #243

Maybe I'm ruining it for everyone, but when I've gone to New York's budding "no tip" restaurants, I've thrown a cash tip on the bill. Guess what happened next? I was asked my name, and the next times I went, I got seated faster, comped chef's recommendations and a generally friendlier interaction with my server. Same thing happens abroad, where the locals don't tip well. I don't understand how people get shocked by f…

As a New Yorker, I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Tips are flat-out refused at the no-tip restaurants. And the idea that your tip was tracked in a database and that you actually got better service the next time because of it is entirely in your mind, I'm sorry. There's actually a tremendous amount of research on incentives, and they don't always result in the behavior you'd think.

> Tips are flat-out refused at the no-tip restaurants

From experience, they are not. I don't typically carry cash, and actually draw it to test this hypothesis every time I visit no-tip restaurants. The first time I do it, I am usually reminded I am at a no-tip restaurant. After I insist on the excellence of the service the tip is always accepted.

> the idea that your tip was tracked in a database

Database? It's just a server, bartender, maître d', restaurant owner, et cetera remembering your name and face.

Re: No tipping means better business

#258

Post by rbcgerard »

zip1234 wrote: post #230
rbcgerard wrote: post #216

Jobs that have a high component of tip income, generally tend to be low wage (total comp), seasonal, have high turnover, employ younger workers (again, generally), and are transaction oriented. With the above in mind it makes sense to use tipping to align enployees and management in a situation where management can't spend the time developing/micro managing its employees You think the average teenage valet is going t…

I would agree except for the fact that tips have been found to largely not correlate with performance. http://freakonomics.com/2012/12/28/do-we-really-tip-based-on...

I totally agree that there is a tremendous amount of variance in what people actually tip (in the case of the valet, it can literally depend on the amount and denominations of the cash in one's pocket), but I think it does matter in tail cases, and I would hazard that the providers of the service know this as well...at least providing incentive not to be awful or to be excellent (for those so inclined)

Re: No tipping means better business

#259

Post by emodendroket »

Any consideration of tipping has to take into account the fact that it lets owners shift risk to their employees (since more of a slow night will come out of their pockets instead of the owner's) -- especially when laws specifying that employers have to make up the difference if a wage with tips is less than minimum wage are poorly enforced.

Re: No tipping means better business

#260

Post by JumpCrisscross »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #253
crazygringo wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a New Yorker, I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Tips are flat-out refused at the no-tip restaurants. And the idea that your tip was tracked in a database and that you actually got better service the next time because of it is entirely in your mind, I'm sorry. There's actually a tremendous amount of research on incentives, and they don't always result in the behavior you'd think.

I concur. A no tip restaurant would NEVER take your tip. How the hell would they divy up the 10 bucks if top you give them among the entire staff? Best case scenario the waiter pocketed it.

> Best case scenario the waiter pocketed it.

Perhaps. But the waiter still manages, the next time I come, to speed up my wait, have the chef (or owner, if he or she were in) drop by the table, et cetera. From what I can tell, in conversations with them, they each appreciate the gesture.

I will admit my observations are co-mingled with regularity.

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