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America Needs a New Moon Mission

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Re: America Needs a New Moon Mission

#51

Post by PJDK »

mitchtbaum wrote: post #30

This comment shows what enormous damage belief in manned, extra-orbital space visits does to us (us = humans, life on Earth). Of course I'm going to take downvotes for saying this, so I'll ask gullible readers one question: what ^ ^evidence^ ^ have you seen that proved such extraordinary events took place anywhere other than on your screens?

It's a testament to the magnitude of the achievement of landing on the moon that it is still a deniable event, so many years later

No one claims we've never climbed Everest, or been to the South Pole.

Re: America Needs a New Moon Mission

#52

Post by [deleted] »

PJDK wrote: post #51
mitchtbaum wrote: post #30

This comment shows what enormous damage belief in manned, extra-orbital space visits does to us (us = humans, life on Earth). Of course I'm going to take downvotes for saying this, so I'll ask gullible readers one question: what ^ ^evidence^ ^ have you seen that proved such extraordinary events took place anywhere other than on your screens?

It's a testament to the magnitude of the achievement of landing on the moon that it is still a deniable event, so many years later No one claims we've never climbed Everest, or been to the South Pole.

[deleted]

Re: America Needs a New Moon Mission

#53

Post by DanBC »

PJDK wrote: post #51
mitchtbaum wrote: post #30

This comment shows what enormous damage belief in manned, extra-orbital space visits does to us (us = humans, life on Earth). Of course I'm going to take downvotes for saying this, so I'll ask gullible readers one question: what ^ ^evidence^ ^ have you seen that proved such extraordinary events took place anywhere other than on your screens?

It's a testament to the magnitude of the achievement of landing on the moon that it is still a deniable event, so many years later No one claims we've never climbed Everest, or been to the South Pole.

Flat earthers claim the south pole doesn't exist, and so they probably claim we've never been.

Re: America Needs a New Moon Mission

#54

Post by EarthIsReal »

PJDK wrote: post #51
mitchtbaum wrote: post #30

This comment shows what enormous damage belief in manned, extra-orbital space visits does to us (us = humans, life on Earth). Of course I'm going to take downvotes for saying this, so I'll ask gullible readers one question: what ^ ^evidence^ ^ have you seen that proved such extraordinary events took place anywhere other than on your screens?

It's a testament to the magnitude of the achievement of landing on the moon that it is still a deniable event, so many years later No one claims we've never climbed Everest, or been to the South Pole.

So the evidence that proved it to you was the magnitude of the achievement?

Re: America Needs a New Moon Mission

#55

Post by coldtea »

EarthIsReal wrote: post #54
PJDK wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a testament to the magnitude of the achievement of landing on the moon that it is still a deniable event, so many years later No one claims we've never climbed Everest, or been to the South Pole.

So the evidence that proved it to you was the magnitude of the achievement?

Parent doesn't say that the magnitude of the achievement proves that the achievement happened.

He says that the denial of the achievement proves its magnitude (whether the magnitude corresponds to a real achievement or not).

People don't usually deny/doubt trivial things.

Re: America Needs a New Moon Mission

#57

Post by EarthIsReal »

ben_w wrote: post #45
mitchtbaum wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would accept the same data humans have always used for these calculations, orienting locations in space history. In this case, that would be a series of images that show the motions of the stars and telemetry data that matches it, much better from multiple angles. It's super easy to provide, super hard to fake, and as definitive as it gets. --- As for the only other ^^ evidence ^^ offered so far (Taniwha, thank you…

Every time I take a photo of the night sky, I'm lucky if I can see a single star. And that's without having the exposure levels set so that I can see the ground as more than a featureless white washed out expanse of light.

The stars are our map. With them we can find our way when we get lost. Every night they shine down on us and guide our direction. How can you excuse not a single orientable picture?

Re: America Needs a New Moon Mission

#58

Post by EarthIsReal »

coldtea wrote: post #55
EarthIsReal wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the evidence that proved it to you was the magnitude of the achievement?

Parent doesn't say that the magnitude of the achievement proves that the achievement happened. He says that the denial of the achievement proves its magnitude (whether the magnitude corresponds to a real achievement or not). People don't usually deny/doubt trivial things.

I understood what he said. I'm simply asking for evidence. What proved it for you?

Re: America Needs a New Moon Mission

#59

Post by coldtea »

EarthIsReal wrote: post #58
coldtea wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent doesn't say that the magnitude of the achievement proves that the achievement happened. He says that the denial of the achievement proves its magnitude (whether the magnitude corresponds to a real achievement or not). People don't usually deny/doubt trivial things.

I understood what he said. I'm simply asking for evidence. What proved it for you?

>I understood what he said.

Well, maybe, but the question was not corresponding to that understanding.

>I'm simply asking for evidence. What proved it for you?

It wasn't something that needed much proving in the first place, perhaps the contrary would have needed more proving.

There was a space race, and both players had developed incrementally improved technology that was getting closer to achieving that.

Besides there's the enormity of a cover up operation involving thousands of people of all walks of life and for decades on end (e.g. scientists who to this day do tests on minerals etc brought from the moon).

Plus, we have (and had) all kinds of other related stuff, from airplanes that can get to the stratosphere, to satellites, a space station, etc. Not much of a stretch to also be able to go to the moon.

Re: America Needs a New Moon Mission

#60

Post by euyyn »

danblick wrote: post #26
sperling75 wrote: post #2

Agree completely that our space program needs a new significant mission to stay relevant. However, I don't think going to space matters as much as it did last century. During JFK's reign catching up in space with the soviets was more than about going to space, it was about being able to defend the country. Today I think our new Moon Mission should be about solving climate change. That's an issue the country and world…

Gerard Degroot argues in "The Dark Side of the Moon" [1] that going to the moon was mostly about (1) allowing Democrats (LBJ and JFK) to score political points by criticising the Eisenhower administration and (2) cashing in on American cultural enthusiasm for space (Buck Rogers, Orson Welles, etc.). Space exploration didn't actually make much sense in terms of defense policy, international relations, or scientific re…

Just from the look of it, without having read the book nor Degroot's critics, looks like a pretty unbalanced viewpoint:

"In the things the we seemed to be behind, we actually were ahead but it was a secret. In the things we irrefutably were behind, it's because we were just waiting for them to set the precedent".

When an argument has such an onanistic appeal to patriots, it's suspect.

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