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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#91

Post by zeroer »

surrealvortex wrote: post #28
legohead wrote: post #15

Went to a revolving sushi bar tonight. Everything was automated. They even had a touchpad where you can put in orders (like miso ramen soup), which get delivered by a belt. The only thing the servers did was sit us and bring us water. We asked them to replace a leaking soy sauce container and they never did. We tipped 0$ -- there was essentially no service. I kinda felt bad, but talking it over with my wife, I couldn…

I also don't understand tipping at food carts. Customers stand in a line to pay and get their food, and are also expected to tip (either via Square or through tip jars). Edit: the expectation is generally implicit, and while standing in line, I can't help but notice that most customers hit the minimum tip percentage on Square, which is usually 15%

IIRC with a few extra clicks on Square you can find a menu that will give you a "no tip" option. It's definitely hidden on purpose.

Re: No tipping means better business

#92

Post by mahyarm »

coldtea wrote: post #40
Symbiote wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which other services would you introduce tipping to? Fast food? Buying shoes? Car wash? Repairing plumbing? Fixing a computer? I don't see why eating in a restaurant should need extra incentives to the waiters, when we expect good service without tips elsewhere.

> I don't see why eating in a restaurant should need extra incentives to the waiters, when we expect good service without tips elsewhere. Forget what you "expect". Do you actually GET "good service without tips elsewhere"? My point (and the parent's point) exactly.

Usually the service is worse in 'tip expected' industries.

Re: No tipping means better business

#93

Post by ktRolster »

pzh wrote: post #55

The problem with no tipping, in my experince (especially in Europe), is that waiters aren't incentivized to turn tables. If you go to a popular spot for dinner that happens to be completely full and ask for a table, the waiter will usually shrug their shoulders and say 'Sorry, try again tomorrow.' Usually, there is no concept of a waiting list or a waiting time estimate, because diners are conditioned that they can s…

If you go to a popular spot for dinner that happens to be completely full and ask for a table, the waiter will usually shrug their shoulders and say 'Sorry, try again tomorrow.'

Or better yet, when the waiter at a cafe says very politely, "Oh yes, sit anywhere!" when there isn't an empty chair in the place.

Re: No tipping means better business

#94

Post by avar »

MrQuincle wrote: post #43

From personal experience (just anecdotal) I would say service in the US is much better than for example in the Netherlands (my own country). I think you'll have to think of other things than service to make this happen. Other options: + Start with clear signs to indicate for other businesses (cabs, hairdresser) that tips are not expected. + I will assume that you pay the 20% to your personnel anyway. So basically you…

Service in Spain is also much better than The Netherlands, I'd say on par with US service.

I think Dutch service is just particularly bad, and tipping clearly doesn't explain the difference since Spanish service is so much better without the expectation of tipping.

Re: No tipping means better business

#95

Post by aninhumer »

coldtea wrote: post #40
Symbiote wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which other services would you introduce tipping to? Fast food? Buying shoes? Car wash? Repairing plumbing? Fixing a computer? I don't see why eating in a restaurant should need extra incentives to the waiters, when we expect good service without tips elsewhere.

> I don't see why eating in a restaurant should need extra incentives to the waiters, when we expect good service without tips elsewhere. Forget what you "expect". Do you actually GET "good service without tips elsewhere"? My point (and the parent's point) exactly.

That depends what you mean by "good service"?

If you mean responding quickly when we want something, and dealing with problems professionally, then yes.

If you mean constant attention and fake smiles then no.

Re: No tipping means better business

#96

Post by rdl »

microtonal wrote: post #88
rdl wrote: post #82

I used to hate tipping but now I love it. I spend >100 nights/yr in hotels, and tipping the bellman/doorman well on the way in is one of the best investments in a good stay (calibrating tips for the point where he gives you his name, and ideally phone number, for "if you need anything else"; $10 in most third tier US cities; $20 in a place like New York). Las Vegas basically runs on $5s and $20s -- everything from "v…

If you view tipping as an obligation it sucks, but once you view it as a chance to get what you want it is great. If you have the money to tip for such amounts. All others will just the lower quality service. Coming from a Western European country that does not have much tipping, I think I like egalitarian customer service more ;). (Not meant as a personal attack, just to point out that it's not feasible for everyone…

The thing is tipping is usually after service, so if it is single round game, you can free ride.

I'm actually glad that people visually like me (techie upper middle class white American business traveler) seem to have a good reputation worldwide for tipping well -- it means I get service as if I'd tip well even beforehand.

What would suck is being a black guy or otherwise profile as not likely to tip (French?) but being personally willing to tip. In that case, you probably tip initially before service.

Re: No tipping means better business

#97

Post by herbst »

pzh wrote: post #55

The problem with no tipping, in my experince (especially in Europe), is that waiters aren't incentivized to turn tables. If you go to a popular spot for dinner that happens to be completely full and ask for a table, the waiter will usually shrug their shoulders and say 'Sorry, try again tomorrow.' Usually, there is no concept of a waiting list or a waiting time estimate, because diners are conditioned that they can s…

You make this sound like the best thing ever and not like a problem. Glad to live in europe where it is exactly like that.

Re: No tipping means better business

#98

Post by mahyarm »

smallnamespace wrote: post #61
kiba wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't follow the technical arguments you're making.

You are a landlord. You need to decide whether to make an improvement to your property. There are only two things you care about: 1. How much money does that improvement bring in? 2. How much does that improvement cost? Neither of those two inputs are affected by a land value tax. Therefore the landlord must reach the same decision, regardless of whether there is an LVT or not, and so LVTs have no effect on whether l…

LVT changes #2, because the ongoing tax cost of putting a new high rise on your empty plot of land is no different than it being empty or it having 4 single family homes. The property tax bill make having a single family home an expensive luxury in dense cities because of the high land tax relative to the amount of improvements on it.

In our current scheme, improving property is disincentivized because it increases your property tax bill with reassessments.

Or am I missing something?

Re: No tipping means better business

#99

Post by joshontheweb »

alkonaut wrote: post #46
joshontheweb wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Tipping culture gives more power to the customer and results in better service in my experience. Every time I come back to the US I experience a noticeable increase in attention and service. Also, when abroad, if they find out you are from the US many servers will put in extra work as they know there is a decent chance you will tip based on your home culture. I always tip even in countries where it isn't expe…

The thing people seem to be missing though is that a set "expected tip level" ruins the whole thing. If you are expected to tip 20% for just "service" what incentive does that give to provide "good service"? Sure you might have a higher chance of getting 30% for good service - but I think it's probably easier to get 10 or 20% for good service in a place where 0% is the expected level.

If you aren't getting service worthy of tips, don't tip. No one is going to stop you on your way out. You may get worse service the next time you come back. However, why would you go back if the service was bad the first time?

Re: No tipping means better business

#100

Post by herbst »

coldtea wrote: post #40
Symbiote wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which other services would you introduce tipping to? Fast food? Buying shoes? Car wash? Repairing plumbing? Fixing a computer? I don't see why eating in a restaurant should need extra incentives to the waiters, when we expect good service without tips elsewhere.

> I don't see why eating in a restaurant should need extra incentives to the waiters, when we expect good service without tips elsewhere. Forget what you "expect". Do you actually GET "good service without tips elsewhere"? My point (and the parent's point) exactly.

Yes? I really dont see the difference here. In both cases they are paid. In non tip environments usually even well better because its a nice salary plus random tips here and there
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