If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will • Hacker News Board

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#151

Post by devinhelton » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:53 AM UTC

hurbledr wrote: post #150

devinhelton wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really arguing that desegregation created these problems? Seems a bit backwards to me. I think it's incredibly obvious that race relation issues existed long before the desegregation of schools. Did you read my post? https://devinhelton.com/busing-in-boston I'm talking mostly about Boston, though I've found the same things when researching other northern cities. I'm not sure about the American south, I haven'…

>Boston did not have a Jim Crow system – if a black child lived in a white area, he could go to the local mostly white school. So you are arguing that Boston was so racially tolerant in the 70's that they had no racist policies either explicit or implicit, and that a black kid could go to a white school completely unmolested? That they wouldn't be yelled at or beaten? That they would be welcomed with open arms?

What I wrote is what I wrote, and what argued is what I argued. Boston did not have a Jim Crow system whereby all blacks kids went to black schools and all white kids went to white schools. Schools were assigned by neighborhood, (with some ability for transfers). So if a neighborhood was all white, then you get a very white school. Mixed neighborhoods had more mixed schools. Here is a racial breakdown of the schools, two years before forced busing: https://repository.library.northeastern.edu/downloads/neu:m0...

So what was the experience like of the non-white kids in a majority white school (or vice versa)? That would vary a lot based on the particular school. I certainly do not argue that all schools would "welcome with open arms" outsiders of a different ethnicity. And especially not Charlestown High and South Boston High -- those neighborhood were quite parochial. When Italians started going to Charlestown High for instance, they were called "Wops" and such and there were fights. I don't have any good information on the experience of any black students attending those schools before forced busing. Most black students taking advantage of open enrollment would have gone elsewhere because Charlestown High and South Boston HIgh were crappy and overcrowded.

There was a voluntary busing program in Boston called Project Exodus in the mid 1960s whereby up to 600 black students were bused to mostly white schools. There was a survey of parents, that found ( https://repository.library.northeastern.edu/downloads/neu:m0... ) : "Other findings indicate that the mothers think that grades have improved, the amount of homework the children have to do has increased, their children have more white friends, that there is not a lot of prejudice or discrimination encountered at the new schools. With respect to this last distribution, only seven (or 10%) of the respondents felt that their children encountered a lot of prejudice, fifteen percent thought their children encountered some, while 70 percent thought their children encountered litttle or no prejudice or discrimination"

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#152

Post by allengeorge » Sun, Dec 25, 2016, 9:08 PM UTC

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #149

allengeorge wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, unclear. For one thing school boards are motivated to constrain headcount, since that accounts for a massive proportion of their budget spend. On the other hand, demand - especially in the early years - is incredibly high, though it wanes later. Perhaps someone who works in TDSB or the like will respond with some insight. https://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2015/11/22/fre... http://www.theglobeand…

Thanks. My wife is French-English bilingual with an interpretation certificate, and she now wants to become a science teacher, and I kinda wanna apply to enter Canada given the recent unpleasantness.

If she's fluently bilingual and skilled you would probably have a much easier time applying via Quebec's immigration program. I assume that you're an engineer, and if so, there are a few startups hiring in Montreal.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#153

Post by jschwartzi » Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 5:54 AM UTC

ticviking wrote: post #83

Goronmon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, a lot of comes down to the individual teachers. The good ones, who care about their students, will spend extra time running student groups (drama clubs, etc) and participate in teacher groups. Add in grading and planning on top of that and you can easily be working 12 hour days, easily. But you can still have plenty of teachers that don't care about making the extra effort.

Bluntly teachers who need to work much more than contract hours are not efficient or planning ahead well.

Let me tell you about how many hours a day I was working when I was student teaching.