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Show HN: Learn how to build electronics with monthly kits

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Re: Show HN: Learn how to build electronics with monthly kits

#51

Post by pkaye »

Animats wrote: post #39
htoooh wrote: post #23

An alternative which I subscribe to is Hackerboxes[0]. It's a bit cheaper at $44/month and each month's box comes with all of the required hardware. You can check out the instructions for past boxes here[1]. I've followed both thimble.io and Hackerboxes prior to launch and thimble.io definitely has more thorough instructions and a nice learning platform[2] which may be less intimidating for beginners. I ended up goin…

The Hackerboxes site's main picture is of some surface mount blank boards, and I thought "Those guys are hardcore - they expect you to solder surface mount." But no. None of their kits require SMT assembly. The pictures are just clip art.

I find SMT assembly somewhat easier than through hole especially with a good temperature controlled iron. My experience level is just fixing up PCBs or adding a few parts while developing firmware at work.

Re: Show HN: Learn how to build electronics with monthly kits

#52

Post by blackguardx »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #46

My issue with learning electronics is that there's a steep gap between "plug this into that" and "plug this into that because x ". I want to learn how to reason about the latter. Most resources I've seen like this don't give you that, they just have a bunch of prefab projects and lead you through them with the former strategy. Fortunately I've been able to learn some of the latter on my own but it would be great to s…

I recommend The Art of Electronics, by Horowitz and Hill.

I'm an electrical engineer and in my experience most EE courses are very math heavy. This is because the theory behind electronics is very math heavy. Many people don't enjoy doing math problems in their spare time, though. The thing is that after you get past the theory and into the practice, the math mostly drops away as you learn abstractions and little tricks to aid in designing circuits. I like The Art of Electronics because it has the math there if you need it, but assumes you didn't get past Algebra. It mostly leads with the abstractions and little tricks that you would use to design circuits with a just a pen and paper.

Some people find it tedious, though. My advice is not to read it cover to cover. Read the parts that interest you and use the rest as a reference.

Re: Show HN: Learn how to build electronics with monthly kits

#53

Post by skolor »

acupofnope wrote: post #30

This is great! Are there similar subscription services in the UK/Europe?

I have no idea about the quality, but I saw this kit getting posted on Twitter this afternoon: http://www.boldport.club/. It looks a little simpler, but may scratch the itch you're looking for.

Re: Show HN: Learn how to build electronics with monthly kits

#54

Post by vvanders »

blackguardx wrote: post #52
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #46

My issue with learning electronics is that there's a steep gap between "plug this into that" and "plug this into that because x ". I want to learn how to reason about the latter. Most resources I've seen like this don't give you that, they just have a bunch of prefab projects and lead you through them with the former strategy. Fortunately I've been able to learn some of the latter on my own but it would be great to s…

I recommend The Art of Electronics, by Horowitz and Hill. I'm an electrical engineer and in my experience most EE courses are very math heavy. This is because the theory behind electronics is very math heavy. Many people don't enjoy doing math problems in their spare time, though. The thing is that after you get past the theory and into the practice, the math mostly drops away as you learn abstractions and little tri…

I'll second the recommendation, it does a great job of not only covering things but explaining why you'd use certain components and the engineering trade-offs required(the section on transistors is fantastic). It's old but still very relevant today.

If I remember correctly they even go from transistor up to building an entire 8-bit micro in addition to the excellent analog reference.

As someone who isn't an EE I found it still very straightforward to follow if a bit dense(in a good way) in some sections.

Re: Show HN: Learn how to build electronics with monthly kits

#55

Post by throwanem »

jacobolus wrote: post #42
throwanem wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some advice I'd have appreciated early on, because it took me a long while to figure out on my own: Use a tiny dab of solder on the iron tip for better heat transfer, and heat the joint for longer than it feels like you should need to. Melt the solder wire against the joint, not the iron - the iron will always melt solder, but that's not what it's there for; it's there to heat the joint until that melts the solder, w…

> heat the joint for longer than it feels like you should need to. You shouldn’t heat the joint for more than about 2 seconds before feeding solder into it. If you need longer than that, you probably don’t have a properly tinned tip or a properly cleaned joint, or your tip is too small, or perhaps your iron has low heat capacity. I also highly recommend using lead-based flux-core solder, e.g. 63/37 Kester 44. The lea…

I run my iron cool to avoid overheating joints, a nasty habit left over from years of not knowing what I was doing. It takes six or eight seconds to heat a joint. Running at a higher temperature would probably obviate the need for the extra dab of solder on the tip, too; I add a tiny drop and roll it against the joint, but with a higher setting, I probably wouldn't need to.

Re: Show HN: Learn how to build electronics with monthly kits

#56

Post by blackguardx »

BoorishBears wrote: post #26
impostervt wrote: post #12

The price is a bit steep. I could probably justify it if I saw more project examples with a parts list. I can get an arduino uno knockoff from Amazon for about $5, so I'd want to know what is included to justify the price. Of course a major part of the price is coming up with kit, sourcing all the parts, etc.

Arduino kits have never been a good value proposition from a parts list perspective, you tend to hope it's the ease of access and guided learning that make it worthwhile. Starter kits with pennies worth of a few passive components and a few "interesting" sensors on breakouts sell for 50$+. Taken at their parts list you could get a thousand assorted pieces of most of the passive components for a few bucks on eBay, and…

FWIW, Atmel AVR (the Arduino microcontroller) I/Os are typically beefy enough to drive the 20 mA that LEDs usually like to get nice and bright. It was one of their early differentiators.

Depending on the LED, I would have no problem driving it directly with just a current limiting resisitor.

Re: Show HN: Learn how to build electronics with monthly kits

#57

Post by ChristianGeek »

coupdejarnac wrote: post #45

Step 1: Buy Getting Started in Electronics by Forrest M. Mims, or any other book by him. Step 2: Build all the projects in his books. You'll only need a proto board and a few other cheap components. You'll build up an intuition in electronics by doing all these projects. If you want to throw a microcontroller in the mix, get the cheap TI MSP430 Launchpad- it's about $5, and you can use C or Arduino.

I have to agree...this is WAY overpriced. I could see spending $50-75 for the first kit maybe, which would include the more expensive parts that you'll be reusing later, then $20-25 a month after that, but $720 -$1080 for a year??? That's just insane. Any profit they're gaining from the high prices is costing them in lost volume.

Re: Show HN: Learn how to build electronics with monthly kits

#58

Post by elihu »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #46

My issue with learning electronics is that there's a steep gap between "plug this into that" and "plug this into that because x ". I want to learn how to reason about the latter. Most resources I've seen like this don't give you that, they just have a bunch of prefab projects and lead you through them with the former strategy. Fortunately I've been able to learn some of the latter on my own but it would be great to s…

There may be better electronics books out there, but one that I've found very helpful is Electronic Components -- A complete Reference for Project Builders by Delton T. Horn (1992). It explains enough of the theory of how the various components work to get a reasonable intuition, but it also describes the various kinds of those components that are available and why one might be better than another for some particular application.

https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Components-Complete-Refere...

Re: Show HN: Learn how to build electronics with monthly kits

#59

Post by jacobolus »

throwanem wrote: post #55
jacobolus wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> heat the joint for longer than it feels like you should need to. You shouldn’t heat the joint for more than about 2 seconds before feeding solder into it. If you need longer than that, you probably don’t have a properly tinned tip or a properly cleaned joint, or your tip is too small, or perhaps your iron has low heat capacity. I also highly recommend using lead-based flux-core solder, e.g. 63/37 Kester 44. The lea…

I run my iron cool to avoid overheating joints, a nasty habit left over from years of not knowing what I was doing. It takes six or eight seconds to heat a joint. Running at a higher temperature would probably obviate the need for the extra dab of solder on the tip, too; I add a tiny drop and roll it against the joint, but with a higher setting, I probably wouldn't need to.

The important thing is not the tip temperature per se, but the heat flow. Try watching that linked video, it’s great!

Re: Show HN: Learn how to build electronics with monthly kits

#60

Post by kbaker »

throwanem wrote: post #55
jacobolus wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> heat the joint for longer than it feels like you should need to. You shouldn’t heat the joint for more than about 2 seconds before feeding solder into it. If you need longer than that, you probably don’t have a properly tinned tip or a properly cleaned joint, or your tip is too small, or perhaps your iron has low heat capacity. I also highly recommend using lead-based flux-core solder, e.g. 63/37 Kester 44. The lea…

I run my iron cool to avoid overheating joints, a nasty habit left over from years of not knowing what I was doing. It takes six or eight seconds to heat a joint. Running at a higher temperature would probably obviate the need for the extra dab of solder on the tip, too; I add a tiny drop and roll it against the joint, but with a higher setting, I probably wouldn't need to.

There's probably not a huge risk running it cooler, but I would definitely try to learn the correct way to save time. I have always tried to explain it like this: the idea is that the iron gets both areas to above the melting point of the solder, so that when solder is applied it cleanly wicks into both the pin and the pad.

Try and place the iron so that it heats both the pin and the pad at the same time. It helps to have a tiny bit of solder on the tip. Then, after around 1 second (unless the pad is on a ground plane, then maybe much longer...), feed in a bit of solder. It should melt and flow immediately on application. You don't need a lot to get a good connection, it should make a little 'hill' on the PCB. Remove the solder, then remove the iron. The joint should cool and leave a nice shiny connection (depends on the solder.)

Tip for using lead-free solder: when you are done soldering, always leave a big blob of solder on the tip before turning the iron off. This way, the tip doesn't oxidize in air while cooling, and you don't have to clean the tip all the time. Next time you solder, just one wipe of the tip after it heats up and it will be shiny and ready to go.

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