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Try emergent coding

codevalley.com

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Re: Try emergent coding

#51

Post by julie_lovisa »

md_ wrote: post #49
jlovisa wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you get a chance to check out this "How it works" ( https://codevalley.com/documentation#howdoescodevalleywork ) section?

At a short read, I still don't understand what the source code of an agent looks like. Do you have an example?

Errr... I can, but it will not be the 'source code' that you likely had in mind :).

I'll take what I said in another comment in this thread:

"This system bootstrapped itself (and achieved PoC at the same time) back in 2013. Agents are built by agents. There is a special agent that sits on top of this hierarchy of agents that is designed to specifically capture a developer's requirements for their agent (what it should ask its client, what decisions it should make, and who it should contract) and translate these requirements to contracts to agents which will ultimately build that developer his agent. (The recursion is a killer sometimes, isn't it?)

This special agent that sits on top of the hierarchy is called the 'Agent-builder' and will feel to a developer like an IDE or visual programming language (designed specifically to design agents)."

Out of curiosity, have you signed up to try your hand at building a few agents? I can personally guarantee you an invite, and once you have those login details, you will be able to see an interactive example expression of an agent. This expression is the closest thing this system has to the 'source code' you are referring to.

Re: Try emergent coding

#53

Post by md_ »

julie_lovisa wrote: post #51
md_ wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a short read, I still don't understand what the source code of an agent looks like. Do you have an example?

Errr... I can, but it will not be the 'source code' that you likely had in mind :). I'll take what I said in another comment in this thread: "This system bootstrapped itself (and achieved PoC at the same time) back in 2013. Agents are built by agents. There is a special agent that sits on top of this hierarchy of agents that is designed to specifically capture a developer's requirements for their agent (what it shoul…

No, I have not. And I will aggressively defend my ignorance! I'm reasonably well-versed in, like, computers and stuff. So if I can't understand the idea with screenshots and examples, it doesn't invalidate the concept, but it is a bit...odd.

Anyway, I can give it a try if I have time, but surely you can provide a more concrete example than this. For example, what does the "string reversal" agent look like?

Re: Try emergent coding

#54

Post by julie_lovisa »

md_ wrote: post #53
julie_lovisa wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Errr... I can, but it will not be the 'source code' that you likely had in mind :). I'll take what I said in another comment in this thread: "This system bootstrapped itself (and achieved PoC at the same time) back in 2013. Agents are built by agents. There is a special agent that sits on top of this hierarchy of agents that is designed to specifically capture a developer's requirements for their agent (what it shoul…

No, I have not. And I will aggressively defend my ignorance! I'm reasonably well-versed in, like, computers and stuff. So if I can't understand the idea with screenshots and examples, it doesn't invalidate the concept, but it is a bit...odd. Anyway, I can give it a try if I have time, but surely you can provide a more concrete example than this. For example, what does the "string reversal" agent look like?

Sure, here are some examples: (Note, they use the old term for agent, which was 'vendor'.)

* Conceptual vs actual expression of an agent that will compile code that clears a string - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlwjHQQgNRQ (voiceover)

* Actual expression of an agent that will compile code that computes an exponentiation result - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmwcs1fu6wM (no voiceover)

* Actual expression of an agent that will compile code that adds a bit to a bit array - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCg8cOZyADE (voiceover)

Re: Try emergent coding

#55

Post by md_ »

julie_lovisa wrote: post #54
md_ wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I have not. And I will aggressively defend my ignorance! I'm reasonably well-versed in, like, computers and stuff. So if I can't understand the idea with screenshots and examples, it doesn't invalidate the concept, but it is a bit...odd. Anyway, I can give it a try if I have time, but surely you can provide a more concrete example than this. For example, what does the "string reversal" agent look like?

Sure, here are some examples: (Note, they use the old term for agent, which was 'vendor'.) * Conceptual vs actual expression of an agent that will compile code that clears a string - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlwjHQQgNRQ (voiceover) * Actual expression of an agent that will compile code that computes an exponentiation result - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmwcs1fu6wM (no voiceover) * Actual expression of an…

Thanks. So in terms of actual "programming," it's just a visual programming environment, right?

Do you have any examples of anything "complex" being written with this?

Re: Try emergent coding

#56

Post by julie_lovisa »

md_ wrote: post #55
julie_lovisa wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, here are some examples: (Note, they use the old term for agent, which was 'vendor'.) * Conceptual vs actual expression of an agent that will compile code that clears a string - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlwjHQQgNRQ (voiceover) * Actual expression of an agent that will compile code that computes an exponentiation result - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmwcs1fu6wM (no voiceover) * Actual expression of an…

Thanks. So in terms of actual "programming," it's just a visual programming environment, right? Do you have any examples of anything "complex" being written with this?

Yeah, a visual programming environment tailored specifically to 'capture' a developer's requirements for their agent; what it will ask its client, what decisions it will make, and who it will contract as a result.

> Do you have any examples of anything "complex" being written with this?

You could argue that an agent itself is a complex thing being created using this technology :). A developer expresses their requirements using that visual domain-specific programming 'language' that you saw, and then these requirements are translated to contracts to agents that will end up building the developer his agent. (Recursion... it's a killer sometimes.)

But for an example that you can actually relate to, here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6jtCVOQiuA) is a cut-down version of our corporate website (with back-end server) being built as a single program by contracting about 8 agents from the behaviour layer (the 'domain-specific' layer of the network). Please note that this example uses our old interface so it looks a little rough compared to the current interface.

(These agents exist in the previous iteration of the network, and are now defunct. We are working our way up to these agents in the current public-facing iteration of the network, so that the community of developers can join and build their own agents.)

Re: Try emergent coding

#57

Post by duckingtest »

julie_lovisa wrote: post #36
duckingtest wrote: post #29

Awesome idea, was thinking about something like that for a long time. Not sure about implementation though. You can define algorithmic problems in a declarative way, but what about the rest, ie. 99% of actual work? Like a website. To verify that a result is good would require a human-level ai. Instead of a hello world example in a video I would like to see a high-level example for something really complex, like: "The…

We do. Here is a cut-down version of it being expressed and built: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6jtCVOQiuA (Note: it uses our old interface, so it is a little rough.)

All I see is a form-based code editor with autocomplete + templates. The underlying model seems very low level: eg. at 2:45, manual input of size in bytes - wtf.

Is that video really supposed to show the power of this thing?

Re: Try emergent coding

#58

Post by julie_lovisa »

duckingtest wrote: post #57
julie_lovisa wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do. Here is a cut-down version of it being expressed and built: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6jtCVOQiuA (Note: it uses our old interface, so it is a little rough.)

All I see is a form-based code editor with autocomplete + templates. The underlying model seems very low level: eg. at 2:45, manual input of size in bytes - wtf. Is that video really supposed to show the power of this thing?

Since there is no compiler, all maximums must be specified at the root client (or injected based on other information by suppliers on the way 'down').

That visual template you saw was actual contracts to agents in the network. As soon as the expression is built, these agents receive contracts and the hive compiler begins forming. Bytes return shortly thereafter.

This technology does still have a long way to go, but it has the potential to do some powerful things. Right now though, we (the Code Valley team and developers who have joined and are joining) are still in the phase of populating the lower layers of the network. We are working our way up... when the behaviour layer (the 'top' layer) is populated with agents, the 'power' you are looking for will be more clear.

Re: Try emergent coding

#59

Post by [deleted] »

strictfp wrote: post #25
protexilu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's like having functions, but with someone to write the function for you. The thing with the market is that you'd know that the code you get is verifiably accurate and thus, your software will have no bugs.

So, if the signature is fixed, why not just write the function and ship it in something like, i don't know, a standard library? ;)

[deleted]
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