Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

As Groundwater Dwindles, a Food Shock Looms

news.nationalgeographic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 91 posts

Re: As Groundwater Dwindles, a Food Shock Looms

#11

Post by ehnto »

taesis wrote: post #3

I wonder if solar/wind/nuclear desalination plants would be better used piping water into existing infrastructure or (somehow) refilling aquifers. ... and that is apparently already a thing XD [1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer_storage_and_recovery

Hey, it's where I live! I had no idea we were doing such cool work in that area. Australia as you can imagine, while often quite lush in many regions, is quite acutely aware of water as a limited resource. Most places I have lived have been under some kind of permenant water restriction policy and I think that drills into most people that it's a pretty serious matter.

Re: As Groundwater Dwindles, a Food Shock Looms

#12

Post by cardamomo »

ehnto wrote: post #9
stretchwithme wrote: post #8

When people use a resource, they should pay more than just the cost of extracting it. They should also pay for its underlying value, which bears some relation to the price you would pay if the resource were no longer available. Such prices would signal to users the actual scarcity of the resource, giving them incentive to reduce waste and find alternatives. It would also spur development of desalination and other tec…

I don't disagree, but it is still a scary prospect. Humans need water. We don't need gas, or oil, heck we can even survive without electricity. We can make do. But we die without water, and it is worrying to imagine a scenario where some people can no longer afford water because the price went up due to any number of factors. The price of a resource fluctuates for reasons not always related to the actual resources in…

To your point, recent reporting by the New York Times has highlighted the trouble with private equity firms replacing public utilities. For example: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/24/business/dealbook/private-...

Re: As Groundwater Dwindles, a Food Shock Looms

#14

Post by philippnagel »

ianai wrote: post #6

Is anywhere not facing a water shortage? Where is it "best managed" or "least bad"

Iceland, Guyana and Suriname seem to be doing alright [0].

According to the United Nations yearly availability of less than 1.700 cubic meters of water per year per capita is the lower limit [1].

[0]: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ER.H2O.INTR.PC?year_high...

[1]: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/...

Re: As Groundwater Dwindles, a Food Shock Looms

#15

Post by stretchwithme »

ehnto wrote: post #9
stretchwithme wrote: post #8

When people use a resource, they should pay more than just the cost of extracting it. They should also pay for its underlying value, which bears some relation to the price you would pay if the resource were no longer available. Such prices would signal to users the actual scarcity of the resource, giving them incentive to reduce waste and find alternatives. It would also spur development of desalination and other tec…

I don't disagree, but it is still a scary prospect. Humans need water. We don't need gas, or oil, heck we can even survive without electricity. We can make do. But we die without water, and it is worrying to imagine a scenario where some people can no longer afford water because the price went up due to any number of factors. The price of a resource fluctuates for reasons not always related to the actual resources in…

It is because it is so vital that we should get a clear signal of its value. We should be paying for what it is worth.

I don't think the supply of ground water and the demand for it vary wildly. And that is what market prices are based on.

But a sudden change in prices would definitely occur when it is depleted.

Rain water is a different thing. The supply varies greatly. But it is also completely renewable. Industries that use it should adapt to its potential scarcity and prices help to do that.

Re: As Groundwater Dwindles, a Food Shock Looms

#18

Post by stretchwithme »

ehnto wrote: post #9
stretchwithme wrote: post #8

When people use a resource, they should pay more than just the cost of extracting it. They should also pay for its underlying value, which bears some relation to the price you would pay if the resource were no longer available. Such prices would signal to users the actual scarcity of the resource, giving them incentive to reduce waste and find alternatives. It would also spur development of desalination and other tec…

I don't disagree, but it is still a scary prospect. Humans need water. We don't need gas, or oil, heck we can even survive without electricity. We can make do. But we die without water, and it is worrying to imagine a scenario where some people can no longer afford water because the price went up due to any number of factors. The price of a resource fluctuates for reasons not always related to the actual resources in…

Besides, I wasn't suggesting selling off water to private companies. Only having realistic prices that communicate the actual scarcity of the resource.

You can't get industry to conserve without them. Because, as you pointed out, they don't have the same incentives as governments do. And industry is the biggest user in many places.

Re: As Groundwater Dwindles, a Food Shock Looms

#19

Post by omginternets »

ehnto wrote: post #9
stretchwithme wrote: post #8

When people use a resource, they should pay more than just the cost of extracting it. They should also pay for its underlying value, which bears some relation to the price you would pay if the resource were no longer available. Such prices would signal to users the actual scarcity of the resource, giving them incentive to reduce waste and find alternatives. It would also spur development of desalination and other tec…

I don't disagree, but it is still a scary prospect. Humans need water. We don't need gas, or oil, heck we can even survive without electricity. We can make do. But we die without water, and it is worrying to imagine a scenario where some people can no longer afford water because the price went up due to any number of factors. The price of a resource fluctuates for reasons not always related to the actual resources in…

>We don't need gas, or oil, heck we can even survive without electricity. We can make do. But we die without water

I understand that this is not your primary point, and I even understand the sense in which it is true, but I think it's short-sighted.

People will die without oil, electricity and silicon chips because we've come to depend on them for such things as medicine, agriculture, waste processing, etc.

Things like your run-of-the-mill plastics are very much a matter of life and death.

Re: As Groundwater Dwindles, a Food Shock Looms

#20

Post by jseliger »

It is surprising to not see desalinization mentioned, here or in the article. Consider https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/israel-proves-the... or https://www.technologyreview.com/s/534996/megascale-desalina.... I have no special knowledge of desalinization apart from a distant relative who has worked on such projects, but the absence of it in the discussion is notable given its recent prominence.
Post reply on HN