“Children of Men”'s vision of the future is now disturbingly familiar • Hacker News Board

Re: “Children of Men”'s vision of the future is now disturbingly familiar

#161

Post by gozur88 » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 12:04 PM UTC

amiramir wrote: post #75

Laforet wrote: post #20

On a lighter note, I had a good chuckle when the article mentioned that the director deliberately avoided depiction of cellphones to avoid creating an unintentional period piece[0]. The last movie I watched in the treatre is Clint Eastwood's "Sully" and I distinctly remember the main character using a chronologically appropoaite Samsung flip phone and that single prop instantly dates the movie to the first decade of…

Blade Runner's production design is beautiful and almost prefectly timeless in its depiction of a future. The only thing that dates the film for me is the cathode ray tubes. They are even in the flying cars I think. Directors and designers could start using flat blue devices so that interfaces can be re-imagined, in 2-D, or 3-D, and composited in future re-masterings. I like the non-desript tri-fold devices in Westwo…

I love Blade Runner's design, too. The story goes there was an actor's strike that year, and they couldn't shoot any of the scenes. As a consequence the artists had far more time than usual and made the best of it.

It's supposed to take place in 2019.

Re: “Children of Men”'s vision of the future is now disturbingly familiar

#162

Post by vidarh » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 12:25 PM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #72

vidarh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But carrying a concealed micro-sd card with encrypted data would be a lot more convenient. Heck, you could fit many times as much data as in Johnny Mnemonic (40GB, I think?) inside your head too by shoving a micro-sd card up your nose or into your ear.

Nose, ear, really? On a more realistic note, what is the maximum microsdxc card capacity of a human rectum?

The point was that the physical volume needed to store far more data is so small that you can fit it even the head without going to the lengths in movie, not that it'd be particularly pleasant. But certainly, smuggling things in body orificies has a long tradition.

Re: “Children of Men”'s vision of the future is now disturbingly familiar

#163

Post by future1979 » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 12:26 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #29

joelmichael wrote: post #27

It says fertility isn't an issue today, but it's a little out of touch with today's anxieties; most of Europe and Japan have such low fertility that their native populations are in decline.

>most of Europe and Japan have such low fertility Their problem is not couples trying to conceive and failing, but people choosing not to have children.

Yes .. in many cases, because they simply cannot afford to have children.

Re: “Children of Men”'s vision of the future is now disturbingly familiar

#164

Post by concinds » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 12:28 PM UTC

lqdc13 wrote: post #84

SmokyBourbon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact is overpopulation isn't an issue, it's a myth. World population is decellerating at a rapid pace and will begin decreasing within decades. It's painfully obvious to anybody who looks at the numbers. But science fiction has convinced everyone otherwise. Just look at all the countries with programs trying to entice their citizens to start families and make babies. Governments know its going to be a catastrophe…

It's not painfully obvious to UN or anyone else noteworthy. Was it also painfully obvious that USSR was going to break up and Russia would have stalled with population growth? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Populati... None of the current trends made sense 30 yrs ago. And in 30 yrs there could be major geopolitical changes that would make current projections useless.

"Overpopulation"-hysteria is a short-sighted, semi-genocidal ideology (see: People's Republic of China). The same people that a decade ago were worrying about overpopulation in Germany are now clamoring for more migrants from the Global South countries to keep up population growth ("these are our future engineers and doctors"). Proof of how unworkable it is.

European economies would simply collapse without population growth to feed social security. And aging populations are a ridiculously undesirable outcome for any country

Current projections aren't useless. The higher your socioeconomic status, the lower your fertility rate, period. The correlation couldn't be clearer. Geopolitical events could cause temporary changes but obviously wouldn't change the underlying trend. Bringing up the existence of Black Swans to disprove trends is logically flawed.

So there's a clear downwards pressure on fertility rates, in the West, which includes propaganda about "overpopulation" that obviously quite a few people believe in, and that guides their decisions; it also includes socioeconomic improvements. What possible trend could act as an upward pressure?

Is there anything more pathological (psychologically-speaking) than the belief that humans are themselves a pathology

Re: “Children of Men”'s vision of the future is now disturbingly familiar

#165

Post by vidarh » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 12:30 PM UTC

gozur88 wrote: post #159

vidarh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But carrying a concealed micro-sd card with encrypted data would be a lot more convenient. Heck, you could fit many times as much data as in Johnny Mnemonic (40GB, I think?) inside your head too by shoving a micro-sd card up your nose or into your ear.

More convenient but not as secure.

Given that the entire plot involves someone chasing him to forcibly extract the data, it wouldn't seem it would offer more security than suitable crypto on a micro-sd card.

Re: “Children of Men”'s vision of the future is now disturbingly familiar

#166

Post by unimpressive » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 12:31 PM UTC

lobster_johnson wrote: post #23

Laforet wrote: post #20

On a lighter note, I had a good chuckle when the article mentioned that the director deliberately avoided depiction of cellphones to avoid creating an unintentional period piece[0]. The last movie I watched in the treatre is Clint Eastwood's "Sully" and I distinctly remember the main character using a chronologically appropoaite Samsung flip phone and that single prop instantly dates the movie to the first decade of…

Conversely, in William Gibson's Neuromancer, there are no cell phones, despite being set decades into the future. Gibson knows a thing or two about seeing their scifi becoming dated, of course. The famous opening line, "The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel" no longer resonates with anyone born the last 20 years or so (although for a number of years, many digital TVs would displa…

I was born in the last twenty years and understood the sentence just fine when I read it. Interestingly enough, youtube does static when your connection times out. (Though I grew up with CRT televison as a kid and definitely remember TV static. I also played a lot of classic video game consoles because my dad was a thrift store hound.)

Re: “Children of Men”'s vision of the future is now disturbingly familiar

#167

Post by usrusr » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 12:41 PM UTC

sheepmullet wrote: post #144

fredsir wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be dangerous if everybody not poor wanted nothing to do with poor areas and poor people. All kinds of poverty counted. That is the direct route to segregated communities and cultures of poor and rich, as seen already many places, except that right now, in 2016, most know that there is "lesser" communities and cultures next to theirs, having experienced them themself. If the fortunate communities would shield…

I don't think that's a natural outcome at all. I think wealthy "first worlders" tend to be very "aware" of poverty and want to make a difference despite being quite far removed from it. On the other hand in countries with serious poverty where the middle class live in the same communities as those in desperate poverty there is a lot less focus and sympathy.

That wealthy first worlder sympathy has a tendency to stop at puberty. Everybody loves the idea of helping children in need, but once those children grow up, it'd better be someone else's turn. It's more satisfying to help the next batch of children, or maybe even a puppy.

Being aware of suffering in the world and living with a minimum of class segregation are orthogonal concepts, or maybe even inversely coupled, with the comforts of segregation helping superficial salon socialist ideas.

But the way I understand the root post (grandparent or deeper), the idea of avoiding the segregated bus is not directly about helping, it is just a routine reminder that the people outside the bus are persons. Maybe with their individual flaws and imperfections, but not the fearsome mass of zombies or orcs that they become in the eyes of those who spend too much time in comfortable isolation. Fear is difficult to get rid of once it is there, but it can be trivial to not allow it to start.

Re: “Children of Men”'s vision of the future is now disturbingly familiar

#168

Post by concinds » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 12:41 PM UTC

Reason077 wrote: post #156

SmokyBourbon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact is overpopulation isn't an issue, it's a myth. World population is decellerating at a rapid pace and will begin decreasing within decades. It's painfully obvious to anybody who looks at the numbers. But science fiction has convinced everyone otherwise. Just look at all the countries with programs trying to entice their citizens to start families and make babies. Governments know its going to be a catastrophe…

"The fact is overpopulation isn't an issue, it's a myth." Global population isn't evenly distributed. Some countries and areas are definitely overpopulated. What constitutes overpopulation can vary according to climate and economic changes. Just look at Syria, where unprecedented drought caused 75% of the country's farms to fail, led to mass migration from rural areas to cities, and ultimately to civil war and signif…

>Global population isn't evenly distributed. Some countries and areas are definitely overpopulated.

Do you mean the West, or for example Africa? The West is often brought up, but it's below replacement level. Africa will definitely have problems, and we need to a) bring them safe, effective birth control, so they can make their own choices, and b) solve infant mortality.

The goal should be 2.0 fertility rates everywhere. "Overpopulation" isn't even remotely a problem anywhere in the West, the opposite is.

>What constitutes overpopulation can vary according to climate and economic changes. Just look at Syria, where unprecedented drought caused 75% of the country's farms to fail, led to mass migration from rural areas to cities, and ultimately to civil war and significant depopulation.

1) You haven't established that the Syrian population was "too high for its natural carrying capacity", which is a normative and not positive statement. A drought doesn't necessarily signify that. This is a social and political problem (did they not receive pensions?), not an overpopulation problem.

2) Are you arguing that, because many died as a result of the drought, many shouldn't have been born in the first place? Seems circular.

>No, it's a myth that populations need to be perpetually growing in order to maintain economic growth. Growth can also be achieved through technological development.

Many countries in the West are below replacement levels. That carries its own problems. The people campaigning against overpopulation seem to also be targeting the West, which I find absurd.

Re: “Children of Men”'s vision of the future is now disturbingly familiar

#169

Post by alexandersingh » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 12:42 PM UTC

pavelrub wrote: post #157

roryisok wrote: post #143

Whatever you might argue about it's prescience, Children of Men is one of the best films of the last decade. The writing, directing and acting are all stellar. It has some of the best single take shots ever filmed. There's a 20 minute running street battle at the end with tanks and explosions that is shot in a single take. It's also one of those rare occasions where the movie is far better than the original book. Boo…

The reasons you consider it to be such a good film probably have more to do with cinematography than writing, acting or directing. The beautiful shots are a direct result of Emmanuel Lubezki being the DP - the same style can be seen in Birdman, Gravity, The Revenant, and some of Terrence Malick’s films.

While the cinematography is a master stroke, it's not enough to carry a film seeking some level of depth.

I feel Children of Men succeeds because all of its elements - the direction, acting, art direction, writing, score, editing & cinematography - come together so well.

There are many films that get some of these elements right, far fewer nail all of them.

Re: “Children of Men”'s vision of the future is now disturbingly familiar

#170

Post by concinds » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 12:45 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #29

joelmichael wrote: post #27

It says fertility isn't an issue today, but it's a little out of touch with today's anxieties; most of Europe and Japan have such low fertility that their native populations are in decline.

>most of Europe and Japan have such low fertility Their problem is not couples trying to conceive and failing, but people choosing not to have children.

> people choosing not to have children

Which does not prevent it from being a problem. Government policy can change that. Not forcing teenagers to go $150.000 in debt and to have a career to repay that until they're in their 30s would be the bare minimum.