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IQ is only a minor factor in success

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Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#251

Post by lisper »

nugget wrote: post #247
lisper wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Neurosurgeons have higher than average IQ That's the conventional wisdom, but is it really true? Or do they just have above average mechanical skills? I followed Carson closely during the presidential campaign and I saw no evidence that he's particularly smart (and quite a bit of evidence to the contrary).

Have you ever seen people you know personally do live events / media on that scale? Carson did an amazing job considering his background.

I have a relative who is a TV news reporter. I have personal acquaintances who have done live TV interviews, and I have done a couple of those myself (on Fox News). Does that count?

And what exactly is it about Carson's background that makes you rate his performance as "amazing"? He seemed amazingly bad to me. I've even watched some of Carson's performances as a motivational speaker before he got into politics and he still seemed to me like (how shall I put this?) not the brightest light in the firmament.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#252

Post by peteretep »

anonymoushn wrote: post #108
peteretep wrote: post #47

Interesting. I'm a 1%er and I have a piece of paper that says I'm pretty smart, but: > a personality trait marked by > diligence, perseverance and > self-discipline I see myself as pretty lazy, impulsive, and slap-dash, and tend to use my brain to brute-force lazy solutions to problems. I am too lazy and don't have the concentration span to pay attention much in meetings, but can generally utter something profound ne…

It is possible for you to overcome your laziness and impulsiveness and direct your attention toward things that help your long-term goals. There are a lot of little pieces to doing this. One of them that I'm doing right now is reading "The Willpower Instinct" and trying out the stuff in it. If you want a more expensive, harder to ignore way to do this, you could try going to a CFAR camp. I'm not affiliated with CFAR…

I have looked at CFAR before, and have inhaled any amount of self development literature.

The only thing I don't struggle to find intrinsic motivation for is programming. I am yet to find a long term goal that resonates at all. All success so far in my life feels entirely attributable to getting bored and saying "what else is there?" and/or seeking external validation. I earn just enough to fly business class whenever I fly because I enjoy the comfort aspect and the external validation that comes with it. The next financial jump is likely to come from wanting to fly private, because why not?

It seems self evident to me that this is deeply unhealthy, but ironically I'm yet to find a solution.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#253

Post by lisper »

ikeboy wrote: post #250
lisper wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAICT getting through med school mainly requires the ability to memorize a ton of random facts and a willingness to defer to authority and put up with a boat load of bullshit. The ability to actually think critically (which is part of my definition of "smart") is not only not a requirement, it can be a distinct disadvantage.

Memorization skills are g-loaded and hence correlated with other g-loaded measures, like critical thinking. I'd even put "willingness to put up with BS for an eventual reward" in that category, see marshmallow studies and e.g. http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20080910/delayed-gratificati...

What can I say? There are exceptions to every rule, and I see very little direct evidence of critical thinking skills in Ben Carson. Geez, the man is a YEC. That's about as far from rationality as you can get without being locked up.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#254

Post by ikeboy »

lisper wrote: post #253
ikeboy wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memorization skills are g-loaded and hence correlated with other g-loaded measures, like critical thinking. I'd even put "willingness to put up with BS for an eventual reward" in that category, see marshmallow studies and e.g. http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20080910/delayed-gratificati...

What can I say? There are exceptions to every rule, and I see very little direct evidence of critical thinking skills in Ben Carson. Geez, the man is a YEC. That's about as far from rationality as you can get without being locked up.

Fair enough, I guess.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/seven-nobe... might change your mind on whether there are smart YECs. Apparently the inventor of the MRI machine was one.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#255

Post by lisper »

ikeboy wrote: post #254
lisper wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can I say? There are exceptions to every rule, and I see very little direct evidence of critical thinking skills in Ben Carson. Geez, the man is a YEC. That's about as far from rationality as you can get without being locked up.

Fair enough, I guess. http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/seven-nobe... might change your mind on whether there are smart YECs. Apparently the inventor of the MRI machine was one.

Like I said, there are exceptions to every rule. There might be smart YEC's, but to me it's a very strong counterindication. Also, that's far from the only evidence there is with regards to Ben Carson. Try searching for "stupid things Ben Carson has said" some time.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#256

Post by whack »

lisper wrote: post #240
whack wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Hard work will reliably get you to the 99th percentile only in a world where only 1% of people work hard." Yes, and that's exactly the world we live in today. Most people don't work hard enough in their teenage-years/20s to become high paying doctors/lawyers/bankers.

Do you have any actual evidence to support that assertion, or are you just affirming the consequent? ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent )

I'm making an assertion based on my own personal experiences, just like I'm assuming you're doing as well. I've yet to meet someone who studied/worked all the time during their high-school/college/career, and still failed to secure a six figure income.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#257

Post by jwatte »

whack wrote: post #256
lisper wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any actual evidence to support that assertion, or are you just affirming the consequent? ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent )

I'm making an assertion based on my own personal experiences, just like I'm assuming you're doing as well. I've yet to meet someone who studied/worked all the time during their high-school/college/career, and still failed to secure a six figure income.

(Assuming US differs and jobs here) A six figure income is way below 99%. It's below 90% for most six figure earners in the US. You need seven figures to get to the top 1%. I know smart people who worked very hard in high school and university who aren't even in the 90%. In fact, you are very unlikely to get into the 1% based on things you learn in college. You mostly have to be in finance or run a successful business to get there, or be quite lucky.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#258

Post by lisper »

whack wrote: post #256
lisper wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any actual evidence to support that assertion, or are you just affirming the consequent? ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent )

I'm making an assertion based on my own personal experiences, just like I'm assuming you're doing as well. I've yet to meet someone who studied/worked all the time during their high-school/college/career, and still failed to secure a six figure income.

A six-figure income does not put you in the top 1%. $100k/yr doesn't even get you into the top 20%. To get into the top 1% you have to make more than $500k/yr.

http://www.investmentu.com/article/detail/35049/mailbag-how-...

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#259

Post by Godel_unicode »

imesh wrote: post #205
Fnoord wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my world view having a kid is similar to an 18 year prison sentence. Unless something happens to them you have offspring for the rest of your life; not for 18 years. If you're referring to them leaving the house at 18 y.o. The US trend is that 18 y.o. stay living at home. Personally, I expect students to be the exception to that.

His world view isn't possible to have once you have a child. It's the world view that makes sense when you don't have the data.

How can you possibly claim to know how he would feel? Maybe he's different than you.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#260

Post by Godel_unicode »

jwatte wrote: post #257
whack wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm making an assertion based on my own personal experiences, just like I'm assuming you're doing as well. I've yet to meet someone who studied/worked all the time during their high-school/college/career, and still failed to secure a six figure income.

(Assuming US differs and jobs here) A six figure income is way below 99%. It's below 90% for most six figure earners in the US. You need seven figures to get to the top 1%. I know smart people who worked very hard in high school and university who aren't even in the 90%. In fact, you are very unlikely to get into the 1% based on things you learn in college. You mostly have to be in finance or run a successful busines…

The top 1% in the US is around $500k/year, but that's not actually what you care about for measuring wealth. Many members of the top 1% are only there for 1 year, and of those who make it multiple years, even fewer manage 10+.

The number you should care about is net-worth. High net worth from a lifetime of careful financial decisions is much more indicative of success than being in the 1% for a year or two. It requires hard work, planning, and life-long frugality. This is in line with OPs assertion that working hard and planning for the future is uncommon and will get you far.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/07/news/economy/top-1/index.htm...

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