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IQ is only a minor factor in success

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Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#241

Post by user5994461 »

vixen99 wrote: post #221
hyperbovine wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having kids is a far more selfish act than not. Our species and our planet would be way, way better off if about 9/10 of us elected not to reproduce for a few generations.

You are presumably delighted to know that Europe is in fact dying off with only France having a fertility rate of 2.0 (2014) which is not enough to sustain the population. One wonders who's going to be paying those taxes to fund the pensions of the elderly and the other massive liabilities of the European welfare states. At < 2 replacement rate, the populations of Portugal, Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Italy, Hungary, Slov…

> One wonders who's going to be paying those taxes to fund the pensions of the elderly and the other massive liabilities of the European welfare states.

Can't pay for it. It's all gonna collapse =)

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#242

Post by jwatte »

errantspark wrote: post #29

I'm probably decently smart, but I'm not rich at all. In fact I'm quite poor by most people's standards. I'm also really happy and work fewer hours per week than anyone I know. If there's one thing I worry about it's that I should be trying to be rich because I probably have the means to make that happen. I might be making 200k/yr if I worked full time. I might be able to start a successful company if I put my mind t…

So, no family to care for? What level of savings security do you have? What happens to you if you get cancer, or break a leg? What will sustain you in retirement?

If you live outside the US in some country where human basic needs are guaranteed, your approach would make more sense to me!

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#243

Post by trishume »

rch wrote: post #182
trishume wrote: post #165

The low correlation of IQ and future wage is surprising to me given what I've seen elsewhere. For example https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Sternberg2/publi... finds that IQ predicts 15% of the variance in income and 25% of the variance in socioeconomic status. Also See http://mavweb.mnsu.edu/howard/Schmidt%20and%20Hunter%201998%... where IQ tests predict future job performance measurements across many stud…

Why do these studies primarily look at wages? Personal autonomy might be a better metric, just more difficult to quantify.

Perhaps that study looks at wages because I specifically looked for another study that also measured IQ-wage correlation. There are studies measuring other things, I was just looking for something to compare to the study the article mentions.

And I would argue that personal autonomy is just another proxy. If you're trying to measure if IQ is helpful, perhaps what you really want to look at is life satisfaction.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#244

Post by chillwaves »

crikli wrote: post #189
spiderfarmer wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said that people that can't find joy in the happiness of others should not have kids, not the other way around. That would be a stupid thing to say.

Fair enough. Apologies for misinterpreting.

It was a snotty thing to say. Even making the judgment that a another person is incapable of enjoying the happiness of others is a really judgmental and overall shitty sentiment. It's doubtful the person you are responding to would have the intimate information needed to make that assessment, further people are ever evolving for the most part. Just a shitty thought all around.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#245

Post by lisper »

ikeboy wrote: post #232
lisper wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being smart helps stack the deck in your favor, but it is neither necessary nor sufficient. Ben Carson and Steve Harvey are both rich, but I wouldn't consider either of them particularly smart.

Neurosurgeons have higher than average IQ, and Carson is one of the best. He's smart. I don't know much about Harvey, but ironically I found this article http://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/steve-harvey-success-series-ki... >Spend time with a person who is very successful in some field or pursuit; it doesn't matter what. After a few minutes you'll probably think, "Wait, this guy isn't any smarter than me." After a few more…

> Neurosurgeons have higher than average IQ

That's the conventional wisdom, but is it really true? Or do they just have above average mechanical skills?

I followed Carson closely during the presidential campaign and I saw no evidence that he's particularly smart (and quite a bit of evidence to the contrary).

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#246

Post by antisthenes »

whack wrote: post #237
lisper wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There cannot possibly be a reliable process to get you to the 99th percentile, because by definition 99% of people won't get there. Hard work will reliably get you to the 99th percentile only in a world where only 1% of people work hard.

> "Hard work will reliably get you to the 99th percentile only in a world where only 1% of people work hard." Yes, and that's exactly the world we live in today. Most people don't work hard enough in their teenage-years/20s to become high paying doctors/lawyers/bankers.

Ah, yes. If someone challenges the luck/grit dogma, throw the just world fallacy at it method.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#247

Post by nugget »

lisper wrote: post #245
ikeboy wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neurosurgeons have higher than average IQ, and Carson is one of the best. He's smart. I don't know much about Harvey, but ironically I found this article http://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/steve-harvey-success-series-ki... >Spend time with a person who is very successful in some field or pursuit; it doesn't matter what. After a few minutes you'll probably think, "Wait, this guy isn't any smarter than me." After a few more…

> Neurosurgeons have higher than average IQ That's the conventional wisdom, but is it really true? Or do they just have above average mechanical skills? I followed Carson closely during the presidential campaign and I saw no evidence that he's particularly smart (and quite a bit of evidence to the contrary).

Have you ever seen people you know personally do live events / media on that scale? Carson did an amazing job considering his background.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#248

Post by ikeboy »

lisper wrote: post #245
ikeboy wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neurosurgeons have higher than average IQ, and Carson is one of the best. He's smart. I don't know much about Harvey, but ironically I found this article http://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/steve-harvey-success-series-ki... >Spend time with a person who is very successful in some field or pursuit; it doesn't matter what. After a few minutes you'll probably think, "Wait, this guy isn't any smarter than me." After a few more…

> Neurosurgeons have higher than average IQ That's the conventional wisdom, but is it really true? Or do they just have above average mechanical skills? I followed Carson closely during the presidential campaign and I saw no evidence that he's particularly smart (and quite a bit of evidence to the contrary).

I know a couple of people who went through medical school. It is not easy. Being smart certainly makes it easier (to get in as well as getting through all of it), so doctors are selected for intelligence, as well as hard working.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#249

Post by lisper »

ikeboy wrote: post #248
lisper wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Neurosurgeons have higher than average IQ That's the conventional wisdom, but is it really true? Or do they just have above average mechanical skills? I followed Carson closely during the presidential campaign and I saw no evidence that he's particularly smart (and quite a bit of evidence to the contrary).

I know a couple of people who went through medical school. It is not easy. Being smart certainly makes it easier (to get in as well as getting through all of it), so doctors are selected for intelligence, as well as hard working.

AFAICT getting through med school mainly requires the ability to memorize a ton of random facts and a willingness to defer to authority and put up with a boat load of bullshit. The ability to actually think critically (which is part of my definition of "smart") is not only not a requirement, it can be a distinct disadvantage.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#250

Post by ikeboy »

lisper wrote: post #249
ikeboy wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a couple of people who went through medical school. It is not easy. Being smart certainly makes it easier (to get in as well as getting through all of it), so doctors are selected for intelligence, as well as hard working.

AFAICT getting through med school mainly requires the ability to memorize a ton of random facts and a willingness to defer to authority and put up with a boat load of bullshit. The ability to actually think critically (which is part of my definition of "smart") is not only not a requirement, it can be a distinct disadvantage.

Memorization skills are g-loaded and hence correlated with other g-loaded measures, like critical thinking.

I'd even put "willingness to put up with BS for an eventual reward" in that category, see marshmallow studies and e.g. http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20080910/delayed-gratificati...

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