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The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

theamericanscholar.org

201–210 of 228 posts

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#201

"Yet the opportunity not to be rich is one of the greatest opportunities with which young Americans have been blessed." Might just be one of the most entitled statements I've ever read.

I used to dream of being a rich man Yeah, I swore I'd have it all some day Once you taste it you will find That it isn't worth a dime 'Till you're free enough to give it away - Randy Stonehill He who cannot cast away a treasure at need is in fetters. - J. R. R. Tolkein You have a valid point that, for the less well off, hearing rich people whine about how hard it is to be rich is really grating. But there is also the…

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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#202
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm going by classical definition here, not the 'new world' American version of upper class, which is usually just economic. That's not the definition used by the person you're replying to, so I'm not sure what your point is.

"That's not the definition used by the person you're replying to, so I'm not sure what your point is." There is only one classical definition of upper class, the other is the very generic 'economic' version. The commenter is clearly not referring to 'economic' upper classes as he referred to 'behaviours' 'social standing' 'expectations' etc.. He indicated his family once had a noble title but sold it - this is defini…

The commenter is female and never once claimed to be upper class. You might try rereading the comment more carefully.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#203
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, my scholarship was not portable. It was specifically for one university and when I failed to attend, no, I did not get to keep my scholarship. No one gave me an extra kicker. I turned my scholarship down for personal reasons, not because I was bought out by some competing school.

At the time when I was in the NMS pipeline, if you listed a school that you wanted to attend when you took the PSAT/NMSQT, that school would give you the scholarship if you became a finalist. The best idea was to say "undecided" and to maintain the ability to designate any school once committed. My older brother learned this the hard way—he listed a school (October of junior year) that he decided (April of senior yea…

This is why I was so curious. Being a high school kid, you're completely ill-equipped to understand the nuances of these sorts of programs.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#204
post #193
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've long espoused what jondubois says above and many people have told me what you say here in response. That might be true but now that I'm in a position to see lots of new hires it doesn't seem to make a difference, at least not for CS grads. We hire a bunch of MIT grads and they seem to have roughly the same distribution of success as all of the other new hires. I'll grant you that this is anecdata but it is the o…

It might depend on what you are hiring them for. If it's for research the elites might do better. But if it's for software engineering there might not be a difference.

That's possible, I can only speak to standard SWE type roles, and in those situations the inter-person variance is larger than the inter-institution variance.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#205
as someone whose parents never went to college, and I went halfway through highschool from the nations top 50 worst highschools (time magazine did an article on that) to a boarding school on scholarship and then got scholarship to a private top ranked institution (not ivy so "second tier" because top 20 universities instead of just ivy), and while I wouldnt redo the past for a second, to be catapulted into a completely different world like this literally overnight while driving home from boarding school to my poor parents fighting and my mom dealing with alcholism and stressing about how to pay the $50 application fee just to apply to college, and pivot between that everyday really does make you see how disparate the world is.

I loved my boarding school because above all the normalcy led to emotional stability so kids could focus on themselves instead of drama. very little drama, very little dating. But everyone was actually very nice and happy. At the same time I felt like an alien even if noone intended it, because it was very obvious 98% of the students there had no clue what an elite system they were in. It also made it difficult to deal with conversations outside of school, like say going to my parents friends house for dinner. "oh you go to THAT school, good for your for being on scholarship. I bet the kids there are spoiled brats. how do you DEAL WITH THEM!?" and i would awkwardly have to explain that they were the nicest people I had ever met, and people went out of their way to make me feel included.

It was like switching between two alternate realities everyday, when the entire population of each world you pivoted between had no idea the other existed, and if it was mentioned, each world mentioned the other in immediate disdain, while perhaps the boarding school world had the more appropriate and politically polished "oh" to anyone who was not at our school. It was not even disdain just kind of like, a blankness in being able to relate to the outside world, but it was not because they were horrible or mean, just that we were all very busy, and to be clear, i much preferred the elite world I lived in, because everyone was so nice and I did feel more at home there than anywhere else in the world.

The gates and doors I had at my own elite beautiful campus of a boarding school were by far the nicest buildings i had ever been in, and it made me feel safe and loved and protected, a world that took care of me and cared about me more than anyone else ever had in the world.

This has been an advantage for me going forward. I got a degree in Electrical Engineering and ComputerScience, I also happen to be female, so being an alien/minority in almost every aspect has become normal for me.

But I can say ive adjusted so much better in the "real world" where competition is high in engineering and software dev, and noone is coddling you. Alot of my friends who took the same majors as me and went to get a job after their Beachelors like I did, had severe adaptation problems and it almost seemed childish to me but I realized I had lived my whole life in lower middle class life, I could carry on a conversation with anyone, and I was not afraid of venturing outside of my comfort zone. That may be a little bit gratiuitous, obviously I dont speak every language and things do scare me and I deal with the imposter syndrome almost daily but in general my ability and willingness to talk to anyone I meet while I'm out, and be creative in the jobs I want and understand complex economic and social impacts of the industries I work is much more developed.

Ultimately the key to evolution is adaptation and I would say I have more emotional adaptability to people and have a more intuitive understanding of economic impacts that have caused so much strife between upper and lower class, the dissapearing middle class, in a more human way.

Because while each of these worlds seem to be (in my opinion) more curious and therefore scared or clueless about the other world which they don't understand, inherently more judgmental without meaning to be, how i see each one is with personal memories of friends, real people, christmas dinners with the poor neighbors and also the incredibly rich girl I knew in boarding school who now interns at Louis Vuitton, and when other people assume the worst about her, I remember how her family let me live at their house when my parents were going through rough times, and her parents treated me as one of their own, and never made me feel inadequate, took my mind of horrible situations at home by bringing me along with their families to fundraisers and elaborate parties where I had a neverending choice of designer gowns to choose from "my closet is your closet" so in no way I feel left out. I remember her genorosity more than her evasive richness, I remember her heart to give and inclusiveness more than I remember her designer clothes, I remember her sense of humour more than I remember her aloofness to the daily grind of the outside world.

And to the real world I grew up in, I remember the extreme struggles of my parents as children and have grace for their inadequacies emotional and financial raising me, I remember the frustration of the neighbor who had been laid off due to a series of globalizing optimizations in his industry that were beyond his time and energy and education to understand, and how it culminated in judgement and frustration in an assumption at dinner about the kids at my school.

I try to remember the humanity in these people and it is much easier to do when you have personal experiences to associate on both ends of the spectrum.

I definitely think everyone could stand more to put themselves outside of their comfort zone, and habitat for humanity on a Saturday for a resume booster is not exactly going to provide the intimate and emotional experiences needed to understand how complex and divided we are as a nation, and just how deep cultural influences play into our prejudices against the unknown.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, to gain access to these institutions you are basically required to have half a dozen extracurriculars on your resume. They receive applications from so many white straight-A/4.0 students that extracurriculars are the only differentiating factor. Few high schools (in California, at least) would even let you graduate without 50-100 hours of community service. Whether these extracurriculars would expose you to diffe…

"Few high schools (in California, at least) would even let you graduate without 50-100 hours of community service." I have never heard of community service as a requirement to graduate high school. (No school in my district had this requirement.) Granted, I understand your overall point. It is becoming increasingly difficult to be accepted by "elite" colleges. In fact, I had applied to nearly 12 colleges that were hi…

> I have never heard of community service as a requirement to graduate high school.

It's a general state-wide requirement in Maryland, for example. See http://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/Home/Introduct... for reference.

And that's been the case for at least 20 years now.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#207

I graduated from one of the top universities in my country (top 50 in the world) and we learned pretty much exactly the same material as they did at MIT. In reality I don't think there is any significant difference in terms of education quality between the top #1 university and #100 for any given field. But the difference in terms of opportunities after finishing MIT vs finishing some other good university is massive…

So brilliant and true. Marx had this all pinned down a century ago. We just haven't figured out a better solution than capitalism yet.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very strange use for the word "interest" in there. Any reason why?

People are often introduced to exponential growth through compounding interest (of a monetary investment).

Exactly. One model I like is e^x represents 100% interest, perfectly compounded for x units of time. a^b is really just e^[ln(a) * b]. Then you can think about "ln(a) * b" being the interest earned scaled by time.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#209
post #11

The remarks here on HN dissing this article piqued my curiosity, so I began to read the article. It's been a long ..year...and I am super tired, so I am not going to manage to actually read the whole thing. But, I was one of the top three students of my graduating high school class and I turned down a National Merit Scholarship to one of the top two universities of my home state. I think I made the right call and I t…

The remarks here on HN dissing this article piqued my curiosity The other day I read a comment observing that commenters here have an almost Pavlovian response that compels them to disagree with the article. That seems right to me. A while ago I wrote this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12300542 , which touches on similar themes.

People who agree don't post. It's why online communities tend towards contrarian, which tends towards crackpot.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#210

TL;DR: Going to an elite school 1. denies you the opportunity to empathize with anyone beyond a narrow spectrum of socioeconomics and culture 2. anoints you with a sense of self-worth and entitlement that is, if earned at all, only founded on a narrow set of skills: analytic ability and hard work 3. admits you into the class of seductive "entitled mediocrity", which allows you to fail spectacularly with essentially n…

Hm. I went to Stanford. Famous for diverse, risk-taking non-mediocre graduates. I guess its the exception that proves the rule?

What are some examples of "risk-taking"? (I don't think I've know anyone who could be described as risk-takers.)
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