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The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#161

Post by bb101 »

peteretep wrote: post #20

Brits figured this shit out a long time ago: you talk about the weather.

The weather is truly the #1 icebreaker here in the UK. However, if you've spoken to someone at least twice before and still only keep talking about the weather then you start to look dim.

Amongst the upper and upper-middle classes, the concept and practice of politeness ensures conversation. Children are taught at a young age to take an interest (or at least feign an interest) in the other person and think of a line of conversation that may be appropriate.

If you chat to a Brit and get beyond the weather, you'll notice that you will be asked a lot of questions. It's part conversation and part fact-finding. Some people would rather fall off the end of the Earth than ask where the other person went to school (i.e. it's rude to pry), but with 20 little questions we can work all that out and carry a conversation at the same time.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#162

Post by pc86 »

edblarney wrote: post #139
spc476 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um ... my family has been tracked back to John "Tuscarora Jack" Barnwell (came to the colonies in 1701--- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barnwell_(colonist) ) but I'm not "upper class" my any means. I'm not sure what you meant by that.

That you can trace your lineage, does not mean you are 'upper class'. But 'upper class' people can usually trace their lineage quite far back. Everybody in the upper class definitely knows they are in the upper class. It's not a 'revelation' you get when you are an adult. Likely quite a few people think they are in the upper class and really are not. I'm going by classical definition here, not the 'new world' America…

> I'm going by classical definition here, not the 'new world' American version of upper class, which is usually just economic.

That's not the definition used by the person you're replying to, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#163

Post by cletus »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #158

This was a well-written article. A lot of people are hating on it as a "poor little rich kid" argument, but I didn't see that at all. He put his point at the end, and man is it a good one: > The disadvantage of an elite education is that it’s given us the elite we have, and the elite we’re going to have. I mean, just look at the crap Peter Thiel does in broad daylight, like funding lawsuits for vendetta-by-proxy and…

I assume you mean Thiel funding the downing of Gawker after their scurrilous behavior and attempts to justify anything under the First Amemdment, then that one actually has my full support.

As for the rest, to quote Dennis Hopper (IIRC) "I'm not crazy. I'm rich. Rich people are eccentric".

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#164

Post by jstewartmobile »

cletus wrote: post #163
jstewartmobile wrote: post #158

This was a well-written article. A lot of people are hating on it as a "poor little rich kid" argument, but I didn't see that at all. He put his point at the end, and man is it a good one: > The disadvantage of an elite education is that it’s given us the elite we have, and the elite we’re going to have. I mean, just look at the crap Peter Thiel does in broad daylight, like funding lawsuits for vendetta-by-proxy and…

I assume you mean Thiel funding the downing of Gawker after their scurrilous behavior and attempts to justify anything under the First Amemdment, then that one actually has my full support. As for the rest, to quote Dennis Hopper (IIRC) "I'm not crazy. I'm rich. Rich people are eccentric".

I'm criticizing his means more than his ends in that particular example.

If I were on my game, I would have brought up Palantir and how they're helping roll out the infrastructure of our present and future police state.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#165

Post by csallen »

nimchimpsky wrote: post #32
Mz wrote: post #11

The remarks here on HN dissing this article piqued my curiosity, so I began to read the article. It's been a long ..year...and I am super tired, so I am not going to manage to actually read the whole thing. But, I was one of the top three students of my graduating high school class and I turned down a National Merit Scholarship to one of the top two universities of my home state. I think I made the right call and I t…

"the ability "to not be rich" is, in fact, a choice" Yeah but thats a choice, whereas being poor is enforced. Thats why an elite education is an advantage. The article is horrible self indulgent drivel ... "you incapable of talking to people who aren’t like you". They think going to a shitty school teaches you how to talk to everyone?

> Thats why an elite education is an advantage.

The author isn't saying that an elite education offers no advantage. He's saying that it has downsides as well. It's not 100% advantageous, and yet we tend to think of it as so.

> They think going to a shitty school teaches you how to talk to everyone?

It certainly does a better job than isolating yourself within a very narrow band of culture. In my experience, that's just how cultural experience works.

If you spend all your time hanging out with rich, smart, successful people, it's only going to make it harder for you to identify with people who aren't. If you spend all of your time hanging out with white people, you're more likely to feel awkward when you go to the black part of town. Etc. And the opposites are also true.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#166

Post by vitus »

aarohmankad wrote: post #70
akiselev wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, to gain access to these institutions you are basically required to have half a dozen extracurriculars on your resume. They receive applications from so many white straight-A/4.0 students that extracurriculars are the only differentiating factor. Few high schools (in California, at least) would even let you graduate without 50-100 hours of community service. Whether these extracurriculars would expose you to diffe…

"Few high schools (in California, at least) would even let you graduate without 50-100 hours of community service." I have never heard of community service as a requirement to graduate high school. (No school in my district had this requirement.) Granted, I understand your overall point. It is becoming increasingly difficult to be accepted by "elite" colleges. In fact, I had applied to nearly 12 colleges that were hi…

Hey, look, it's a list of top 100 public schools in California!

http://patch.com/california/redlands/2016-top-100-public-hig...

None of the top ten schools on that list seem to have a community service requirement [0].

There doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule regarding which schools do or don't have a community service requirement. Mission San Jose does, but Lynbrook does not.

[0] As determined by a quick google search for each to locate "$SCHOOL_NAME graduation requirements", followed by a quick scan for anything outside of required course credits.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#168

Post by gravypod »

jseliger wrote: post #64
Mz wrote: post #11

The remarks here on HN dissing this article piqued my curiosity, so I began to read the article. It's been a long ..year...and I am super tired, so I am not going to manage to actually read the whole thing. But, I was one of the top three students of my graduating high school class and I turned down a National Merit Scholarship to one of the top two universities of my home state. I think I made the right call and I t…

The remarks here on HN dissing this article piqued my curiosity The other day I read a comment observing that commenters here have an almost Pavlovian response that compels them to disagree with the article. That seems right to me. A while ago I wrote this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12300542 , which touches on similar themes.

I'd rather see remarks disagreeing rather then bobbing heads at every topic.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#169

Post by posterboy »

atmosx wrote: post #130
jayd16 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a difference between possibly not seeing a choice and not having a choice.

No it is not different, it is the same thing IMO.

The superficial meaning is unawareness of benefits of the choice, hence not recognizing the choice for what it is.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#170

Post by akiselev »

vitus wrote: post #166
aarohmankad wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Few high schools (in California, at least) would even let you graduate without 50-100 hours of community service." I have never heard of community service as a requirement to graduate high school. (No school in my district had this requirement.) Granted, I understand your overall point. It is becoming increasingly difficult to be accepted by "elite" colleges. In fact, I had applied to nearly 12 colleges that were hi…

Hey, look, it's a list of top 100 public schools in California! http://patch.com/california/redlands/2016-top-100-public-hig... None of the top ten schools on that list seem to have a community service requirement [0]. There doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule regarding which schools do or don't have a community service requirement. Mission San Jose does, but Lynbrook does not. [0] As determined by a quick google…

I was mistaken, I thought it was a California state wide thing but I guess not.

Either way, your statement about the top 10 CA high schools is false. I attended Granada Hills Charter and San Marino high school (#1 and #7 respectively) and both do absolutely require community service. San Marino requires 40 hours over four years [1] and GHCHS requires 20 hours per semester [2]. A friend at Miramonte High School didn't have to do any community service but I recognize many of the schools on this list and can confirm they require community service. Searching for "graduation requirements" just gives you a list of credits you need but doesn't include community service or disciplinary rules for graduation.

[1] http://www.sanmarinohs.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=2241...

[2] http://www.ghchs.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server_20226865/File/...

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