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The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#151
post #83

These aren't the disadvantages of an elite education, it's the disadvantages of not having sufficient breadth of experiences with people from a sufficient breadth of social-economic backgrounds. Get your kids to do extracurriculars where they'll meet kids from lower-income households. It'll make them able to relate to them and understand them better.

Yup. I go to an ivy and many of my best friends are construction workers or service workers who will likely never attend college. It's because I wasn't sheltered (nor particularly wealthy as a kid). And when you're there, talk to people. Not just ones who will help you climb the social ladder in whatever elite clubs and orgs you want to join. People of all stripes. It's a much more diverse group in every way than the…

As with many things I feel the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I spent my 20s working in STEM and living in between MIT and Harvard which meant that a large portion of my social circle was drawn from those schools. I see where both sides are coming from here. On one hand you're right in that there were also plenty of people in our circle who came from very different backgrounds. By and large these were normal people and not the sort of socially awkward weirdos the article describes.

On the other hand the article rings true at times. The bit about worrying about their occupation due to the 20 year reunion, I heard that exact thing countless times. The lack of recognition of the second chances to succeed or that they have a ridiculous social network that others do not was also a big thing. And through it all there was always a certain baseline, well, elitism. It was almost never direct but it was always there. It wouldn't be directed at the rest of us but you'd hear it amongst themselves, "I can't believe a Harvard graduate is doing that" when "that" is something that their good friend also does. That sort of thing.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, without the words to describe such structures, they remain hidden from discourse and direct criticism. This protects the implicit structures by rendering them unassailable by democratic processes.

I am half remembering an issue with feminism and hierarchies; groups would naturally form hierarchies anyway, but without any formalism or recognition of them, the effects were made far more insidious

I think this is what you are referring to: http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#153
post #11

The remarks here on HN dissing this article piqued my curiosity, so I began to read the article. It's been a long ..year...and I am super tired, so I am not going to manage to actually read the whole thing. But, I was one of the top three students of my graduating high school class and I turned down a National Merit Scholarship to one of the top two universities of my home state. I think I made the right call and I t…

I studied engineering at Cornell. We had a diverse student body, and this article is just one person's experience. For me, I had a great conversation with my plumber. Clever trick: he stores the snaker in an old tire so he can just roll it around.

For my business, the advantage is initial credibility to customers, but there's so much work beyond that. The software has to be useful, the sales process has to be navigated, and the customer has to be trained and supported.

I've realized life is what I make of it. If I want to converse with my plumber, then we will have a great conversation. If I find building a business fulfilling, then I will build a business. Cornell didn't teach me to do these things; Cornell also didn't teach me not to do these things. We had a diverse student body: this is how I think, and it's different from the author.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#155
post #78

Much of this resonated with me. One of the biggest lessons of my Ivy-league education was, paradoxically, that it wasn't sufficient (or even necessary). At least not for the goals I wanted. If you want access to the elite Wall St. or consulting jobs, then yes, you need it. Once you're in, it's almost impossible to be kicked out. Finish, interview, and you're on the path. But I had longstanding doubts about the state…

Exponentiation isn't a middle school operation. Most probably don't know what real exponentiation is until they do the famous problem in chapter 1 of baby Rudin defining it (or equivalent problem in another book), and bright students are unlikely to study this before mid high school. Normal students sometime in college probably.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#156
In The Devil Wears Prada, Emily is told "a million would kill for a position like yours" when demurrs about her troubles. The author should be thankful they were able to get a nice education, even though it may come short in common sense. You can pick that up later if you want to.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#157
And this is why Trump's win was so confusing for many citizens if the US--too stuck in their bubble to understand the rest of the world and its happenings. See also Nassim Taleb's essay on the Intellectual Yet Idiot class: https://medium.com/@nntaleb/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211...

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#158
This was a well-written article. A lot of people are hating on it as a "poor little rich kid" argument, but I didn't see that at all.

He put his point at the end, and man is it a good one:

> The disadvantage of an elite education is that it’s given us the elite we have, and the elite we’re going to have.

I mean, just look at the crap Peter Thiel does in broad daylight, like funding lawsuits for vendetta-by-proxy and researching the blood of young people as a youth treatment. It's like Old Testament, incur the wrath-of-God type stuff (the blood, not the lawsuit), and the only thing that happens is Sam Biddle writes a screed and we go about our business.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#159
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um ... my family has been tracked back to John "Tuscarora Jack" Barnwell (came to the colonies in 1701--- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barnwell_(colonist) ) but I'm not "upper class" my any means. I'm not sure what you meant by that.

That you can trace your lineage, does not mean you are 'upper class'. But 'upper class' people can usually trace their lineage quite far back. Everybody in the upper class definitely knows they are in the upper class. It's not a 'revelation' you get when you are an adult. Likely quite a few people think they are in the upper class and really are not. I'm going by classical definition here, not the 'new world' America…

Irrelevant truths are worse than relevant lies.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#160
post #78

Much of this resonated with me. One of the biggest lessons of my Ivy-league education was, paradoxically, that it wasn't sufficient (or even necessary). At least not for the goals I wanted. If you want access to the elite Wall St. or consulting jobs, then yes, you need it. Once you're in, it's almost impossible to be kicked out. Finish, interview, and you're on the path. But I had longstanding doubts about the state…

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