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IQ is only a minor factor in success

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Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#81

Post by nl »

errantspark wrote: post #29

I'm probably decently smart, but I'm not rich at all. In fact I'm quite poor by most people's standards. I'm also really happy and work fewer hours per week than anyone I know. If there's one thing I worry about it's that I should be trying to be rich because I probably have the means to make that happen. I might be making 200k/yr if I worked full time. I might be able to start a successful company if I put my mind t…

I'd hardly say that I'm successful, and I know everyone I work with is smarter than me.

But I've been poor (poorer than you appear to be), and I'd be pretty happy to never, ever go back.

Money is a lubricant for so many things.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#82

Post by jacalata »

tjfl wrote: post #49
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common misconception. Most of the self-made / "first generation" rich came from households that weren't poor to begin with. Bill Gates, for example, had a trust fund from his grandfather that gave him a cushion in case he failed. That gave some freedom for him to take calculated risks. What you find is that you need the freedom to be able to take a risk and fail. If you come from a household living paycheck…

> Bill Gates, for example, had a trust fund from his grandfather that gave him a cushion in case he failed. Do you happen to have a source? I'd not heard this and was curious as to the amount.

I haven't heard this before either, but I found this reference to millions of dollars: http://philip.greenspun.com/bg/

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#83

Post by jacalata »

cjlars wrote: post #72
whybroke wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, only about 10% of billionaires are self made, as in not having inherited wealth or come from wealthy families. And even this is a record high up from a more typical 3%. (and remarkably, these are numbers that forbes feels excited about) http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2014/10/03/there-a...

>In 2004, we had 59% of the Forbes 400 having made their own fortune, as opposed to 41% who inherited it. Quote from your own source...

The article explains that they rank the level of "self-made-ness" out of 10, with 10 being from a poor family with no advantages. Then it says " A total of 34 billionaires, or 8.5%, scored as 10s".

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#84

Post by nl »

tjfl wrote: post #49
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common misconception. Most of the self-made / "first generation" rich came from households that weren't poor to begin with. Bill Gates, for example, had a trust fund from his grandfather that gave him a cushion in case he failed. That gave some freedom for him to take calculated risks. What you find is that you need the freedom to be able to take a risk and fail. If you come from a household living paycheck…

> Bill Gates, for example, had a trust fund from his grandfather that gave him a cushion in case he failed. Do you happen to have a source? I'd not heard this and was curious as to the amount.

William Henry Gates III made his best decision on October 28, 1955, the night he was born. He chose J.W. Maxwell as his great-grandfather. Maxwell founded Seattle's National City Bank in 1906. His son, James Willard Maxwell was also a banker and established a million-dollar trust fund for William (Bill) Henry Gates III.[1]

However:

Several writers claim that Maxwell set up a million-dollar trust fund for Gates. A 1993 biographer who interviewed both Gates and his parents (among other sources) found no evidence of this and dismissed it as one of the "fictions" surrounding Gates's fortune. Gates denied the trust fund story in a 1994 interview and indirectly in his 1995 book The Road Ahead.[2]

So I'm inclined to think it's not true, although it does seem a fairly wide-spread story.

But at the same time, Bill Gates did come from a rich family, so he wasn't going to starve if Microsoft didn't work out.

[1] http://philip.greenspun.com/bg/

[2] https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/link-suggestion/wpcd_2008-09...

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#85

Post by peteretep »

downandout wrote: post #77
peteretep wrote: post #47

Interesting. I'm a 1%er and I have a piece of paper that says I'm pretty smart, but: > a personality trait marked by > diligence, perseverance and > self-discipline I see myself as pretty lazy, impulsive, and slap-dash, and tend to use my brain to brute-force lazy solutions to problems. I am too lazy and don't have the concentration span to pay attention much in meetings, but can generally utter something profound ne…

>I'm a 1%er Are you self-made or did you inherit it? No offense intended either way, I just mean that anyone can be "lazy, impulsive" etc. and be a 1%er if they have a trust fund. If you're self-made, odds are that you see yourself this way but actually aren't (similar to supermodels that call themselves fat or ugly), or you got this way after you made the money and now have the freedom to act any way you choose.

Self-made. Father was an expat civil servant so very expensive secondary education was paid for, though.

    > odds are that you see
    > yourself this way but
    > actually aren't
Certainly possible. I just see such a gigantic gap between how hard I could be working and how hard I actually am. I'm not sure how it relates to other people.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#86

Post by kakarot »

jacalata wrote: post #80
errantspark wrote: post #29

I'm probably decently smart, but I'm not rich at all. In fact I'm quite poor by most people's standards. I'm also really happy and work fewer hours per week than anyone I know. If there's one thing I worry about it's that I should be trying to be rich because I probably have the means to make that happen. I might be making 200k/yr if I worked full time. I might be able to start a successful company if I put my mind t…

Diminishing returns for your personal enjoyment, sure. But there are plenty of ways any extra money you had could be spent to make a huge impact for other people: https://80000hours.org/career-guide/high-impact-jobs/#approa...

I wish more people saw it this way. Philanthropy is the only thing driving me to amass wealth. I used to be ok with being poor and spending a lot of free time on side projects but more and more I'm becoming disgusted with myself and those around me for living selfishly when so many people around the world are in pain.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#87

Post by Noseshine »

asher_ wrote: post #69

I'm not addressing the claim of this article, just the methods. IQ has a misleading (and factually inaccurate) name. The Q stands for quotient, but an actual IQ is not a quotient at all. IQs are ordinal ONLY. They allow you (to the extent that IQ tests measure intelligence) to rank people, not assign numerical values. It is not possible from IQ scores to say "Alice is x% more intelligent than Bob", only "Alice is mor…

For some more details, I bookmarked this page that explains "IQ", so that I can post it in forums whenever the subject comes up :-)

http://www.michna.com/iq.htm

Relevant paragraph quoted:

Misconception: The IQ is a direct measure of brain performance. For example, somebody with an IQ of 120 can do 20% more mental work in the same amount of time than somebody with an IQ of 100.

In truth the IQ is a purely statistical measure. It has no direct relation to brain performance, is not proportional to it, and doesn't even have any linear or otherwise straightforward relation to it. The only thing you can say is that somebody with a higher IQ will show higher scores on most other brain performance tests as well, but the IQ doesn't say how much higher.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#88

Post by Noseshine »

nl wrote: post #84
tjfl wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bill Gates, for example, had a trust fund from his grandfather that gave him a cushion in case he failed. Do you happen to have a source? I'd not heard this and was curious as to the amount.

William Henry Gates III made his best decision on October 28, 1955, the night he was born. He chose J.W. Maxwell as his great-grandfather. Maxwell founded Seattle's National City Bank in 1906. His son, James Willard Maxwell was also a banker and established a million-dollar trust fund for William (Bill) Henry Gates III. [1] However: Several writers claim that Maxwell set up a million-dollar trust fund for Gates. A 19…

Is the existence of a trust fund actually relevant for the story? Whether there was one or not, as you already said, Gates didn't have to fear failure. I doubt the family would have let him live in poverty on the street if he had failed. I don't think it changes the narrative. But it's bad that - if you are right - the wrong story is out there because it gives a convenient escape to get sidetracked and be able to ignore the actual message.

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#89

Post by CYHSM »

icelancer wrote: post #36
errantspark wrote: post #29

I'm probably decently smart, but I'm not rich at all. In fact I'm quite poor by most people's standards. I'm also really happy and work fewer hours per week than anyone I know. If there's one thing I worry about it's that I should be trying to be rich because I probably have the means to make that happen. I might be making 200k/yr if I worked full time. I might be able to start a successful company if I put my mind t…

I own my own business and the company is worth some millions of dollars, so I am "rich" though by American standards, not really. My salary is rather low for being the founder. My partner has an equally low salary. Some employees make more than me. I was formerly a data scientist with a salary 2x of what my current one is. I was miserable. Today, I love work. I create things. I have two kids and a wife and she stays…

I am rather curious what type of company you created. You mentioned sports science? Something in the direction of moneyball?

Re: IQ is only a minor factor in success

#90

Post by scandox »

Most non-exceptional things depend on character. Extreme intelligence only manifests its value in areas of extreme complexity.

When I hire programmers for a job I'm looking for characteristics like consistency, patience, memory, organisation skills, attention to detail, a touch of pendantry and a reasonable analytical mind. I don't actively avoid extremely intelligent people, but given the work at hand I certainly don't care if someone is or not.

So in the world of non-exceptional development, character is king.

Likewise in business, except at times of revolutionary change, character always wins out. Persistence, focus, a dash of greed, people skills...Brains are right at the bottom of your priorities.

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