How Social Isolation Is Killing Us • Hacker News Board

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#101

Post by Ericson2314 » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:20 AM UTC

I'm glad so much of the discussion here is about suburbanization. As a staunch urbanist I want to beleive this is a huge cause, but I must admit the "alone in New York" counter-narrative is also compelling. I think I have to speculations on reconciling the two.

First, I think we can agree that frequent interactions with another is a necessary (if not sufficient) condition for friendship. If so, it should be obvious that density is good but size is bad.

Second, I believe our major metros—especislly since the great invertion—attract a certain sort of person less likely to foster community. Your steriotypical new gentrifier is career-focused with strong sense of individuality, moving for work, and, perhaps most importantly, fresh out of school where making friends presents very different challenges.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#102

Post by vonnik » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:27 AM UTC

conistonwater wrote: post #3

I like the article, but I gotta ask: why the focus on "new research"? Is "old research" not good enough? I suppose it might not be, but some of it should really be at least brought up. Here's a book from 1974 [1] by Robert Weiss, whose first (sample) chapter [2] reads very similar to the NYTimes piece, and covers many of the same issues, even before the internet was around. In particular, it draws the line (much more…

> why the focus on "new research"? Is "old research" not good enough?

Because the NYT is a newspaper and they need a reason to publish a news article. This is known as a "hook." The hook in cases like this will be something new being published. It's hard to hook readers by announcing: What we've known since the 1970s still holds true. Just doesn't work.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#103

Post by Frondo » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:36 AM UTC

muninn_ wrote: post #31

winter_blue wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could get involved in local politics, and maybe eventually even run for governor. Is there anything stopping you?

Yes. I have a high-paying job, a mortgage, and although I'm personable I don't see any starting point or path toward doing anything about it.

Volunteer with your preferred local political party. The path to getting into politics can start as easily as showing up until people know you, and having good ideas that enough people agree with. Your job as a politician would be to carry those ideas to the structures of power (town council, school board, whatever).

It's pretty time-consuming, but it's a big responsibility, making decisions that affect lots of people's lives. So, trade-offs.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#104

Post by shorttime » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:41 AM UTC

FrancoDiaz wrote: post #38

To know your dying, and to have no one in your life is a very scary place to be in.

Why's that? Nobody will be sad when you do so there's that silver lining.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#105

Post by jtcond13 » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:44 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #13

muninn_ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. It's not an issue of technology, for the most part, but it's the way American cities are designed. Instead of mixed-use walkable neighborhoods where people with a variety of incomes and backgrounds live, and stay put, we have suburban fortresses where people live in a box, never talk to their neighbors, drive a box to work, work in a box, then do it all over again. The national highway system was great for a n…

This is an extremely poor argument. Try starting a conversation on a Manhattan subway. The lack of boxes between you and your fellow commuters does not make it remotely acceptable to interact with them, nor should it. It is much harder to meet friends who are separated by 5 miles of bus ride than 5 miles of freeway. It is much harder to actually hear each other at a crowded bar than someone's home, but only the very…

This is a fair observation; Manhattan always feel to me very impersonal. However, I think the parent comment is referring to the Interstate Highway System construction in the '50s (and the broader 'Urban Renewal' movement of that era), which razed many of the dense neighborhoods in smaller cities to make room for highway construction. The relevant comparison isn't Manhattan to Scarsdale but the life one could once live in Hartford or Newark to how those cities are today.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#106

Post by JDiculous » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:47 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #13

muninn_ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. It's not an issue of technology, for the most part, but it's the way American cities are designed. Instead of mixed-use walkable neighborhoods where people with a variety of incomes and backgrounds live, and stay put, we have suburban fortresses where people live in a box, never talk to their neighbors, drive a box to work, work in a box, then do it all over again. The national highway system was great for a n…

This is an extremely poor argument. Try starting a conversation on a Manhattan subway. The lack of boxes between you and your fellow commuters does not make it remotely acceptable to interact with them, nor should it. It is much harder to meet friends who are separated by 5 miles of bus ride than 5 miles of freeway. It is much harder to actually hear each other at a crowded bar than someone's home, but only the very…

Even if conversations with strangers isn't a normal thing, it does happen - I have multiple friends who've dated people they met in subway cars.

The point is that crossing paths is naturally going to lead to more spontaneous interactions. All else equal, driving alone and living in silo'd suburban houses means less interactions with strangers compared to living in an apartment in NYC.

I grew up in the suburbs and now live in Manhattan. I meet a lot more people in Manhattan than I ever did in the suburbs, and this is the main reason why I have no intention of moving back to the suburbs.

I'll also add that I spent my youth living in both suburban America and rural Japan. I made a lot more friends and had a lot more fun in Japan largely because I could get anywhere via walking or biking. In America I was dependent on adults driving me everywhere, so I spent way more time alone playing videogames in my house.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#107

Post by closeparen » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:47 AM UTC

nommm-nommm wrote: post #23

smcmurtry wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people who live in small apartments can and do host social gatherings. In my experience, how frequently someone hosts gatherings has more to do with their personality than the size of their living space.

Can confirm, I've been to many social gatherings hosted in Manhattan studios.

Having your own studio in Manhattan puts you so far into stratospheric income (or a family heirloom rent controlled lease) that we may as well be talking about the problems of private jet owners.

I'm talking about the kind of people who have to choose between part of a shared apartment in a conveniently transit-connected part of SF/Manhattan, or their own studio/1-bedroom somewhere with low density and poor transit. Y'know, software engineers making $100k.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#108

Post by brokenmasonjars » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:48 AM UTC

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #52

arkitaip wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We city apartment people aren't better at socializing with our neighbors, probably even worse. The stereotype that cities can be harsh and unfriendly is very much rooted in reality.

I've live on a cul-de-sac (back) in Extreme Flyover Country now for a whopping ... three months, and I met all the neighbors and chat with 'em often. People in stores are very open and will talk if spoken to.

I find driving my car is much more efficient than taking trains allowing me to make multiple stops thus talking with numerous people through out the day.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#109

Post by Slippery_John » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 4:49 AM UTC

mmanfrin wrote: post #28

We are pack animals, it is why dogs evolved in to our family. Isolation is a severance from our natural social state and is hurtful. I think one of the great benefits of the internet is that it is possible to meet and befriend people outside of the normal social routes. It is not a cure for isolation, but friends you game with or chat with or share stupid stories with is a help. The problem is that reddit and digg ki…

Depends on the subreddit. The smaller ones still have strong community. I know lots of people from /r/mechanicalkeyboards for instance, many of whom are local. I think it helps a lot that users organize a TON of meetups all over the world so people have faces to put to usernames.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#110

Post by gabomagno03 » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 5:10 AM UTC

For anyone reading, really feeling lonely and having the means yo affort it. Come and visit a country like Colombia, we love having people over and making friends (really honest and helpful ones) is what we do best. I met an Austrian girl last week who told me she never felt as much in home as the next day she landed here. She now quit his tech job in Europe and moved here.