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How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

nytimes.com

71–80 of 243 posts

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#71
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must be going to the wrong bars. Everyone I go regularly has people minding their own business.

well, if i am not interested in keeping the conversation between me and the friends i am meeting or if i want to talk to strangers because they're late/i am in a foreign city etc. what works for me is to sit directly at the bar (is this correct english, i hope you understand what i mean). It's way easier to start a conversation there.

Yeah I prefer to sit at the bar (that's the correct phrase), but I think my problem is more what wott said. The bars I go to just have a "come with your group of friends and only talk to them" culture. Thus, me going alone doesn't really give me interaction other than a quick chat with the bartender.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#72

I have been "lonely" most of my life. I have lived in a terrible town growing up where everyone lived on the other side of town. I went to college where nothing was happening and nothing is really interesting and I didn't connect with anyone really. Now, I am reaching 30, and have spent the most of my 20s trying to find a way to move to a place that will make me happy. I'm hoping this will eventually happen, but I ha…

TLDR - Stop worrying about finding the perfect place and try to get the best out of what is around you. Find a local volunteer opportunity that will force you to interact with random people and other volunteers (volunteermatch.org is not a bad choice). Just pick something and do it immediately, you may find better/different connections than you would with friends (I have at least).

Long version:

I have a couple recommendations that could help you to connect with people better if you can take a couple minutes to read this, its a little longer than I would like but I really think that you can turn things around. I am by no means an expert and I have struggled with isolation myself at other times in my life, but I do feel like I have made some small improvements so my guess is you could to.

First off, while I think a location can be either conducive or adverse to the type of lifestyle you would like, I think a big part of how well or poorly you fit into a place is on you - you get out of it what you put into it (or something like that). That sucks to hear and you probably already know it and I think it is the truth. The only reason I say that is to caution you to not overlook what might be around you already. That being said, I have a buddy who I feel like was in a similar situation until he picked up and move to Portland kind of on a whim (after doing similar things with other places) and this time it worked out for him (so far), but he probably had to be ready and open to good things happening or else it would have been like it had been before in other places.

More importantly, I think it is way easier to connect with people outside of what we typically think of as "social" situations. I've never liked going to bars to meet people or any kind of mixer situation although these days I'm much better at it. What really did it for me was to go way out of my comfort zone and do volunteer activities that forced me to do things I really didn't feel like doing but I kind of put myself in a situation that made it hard to give into my desire to bail. The main one for me was political volunteering, starting during the primaries of this year and going into the general election. The outcome was devastating but the process and the changes I felt were pretty amazing. The actual work required connecting with total strangers in situations where I otherwise never would have: registering people to vote (talking to people on the street, going to large festivals and walking around and talking to strangers), going door to door to talk to people (mostly giving information but also trying to convince people to vote and giving them my personal opinions), and phone banking (talking to random strangers who were mostly in my city but who I would never likely meet). All these things were really uncomfortable at first but once I met the organizers involved and got excited by their excitement and passion I would sign up for something and then it was like "well, guess I gotta do it". Lock yourself into something that can't really hurt you but that pushes you outside your comfort zone.

After doing all of that, at 30 years old I felt like I had kind of finally figured out how to be a part of my own environment (as opposed to a mindless drone only focused on going from A->B). I haven't found my "next thing" yet, but since then I've found many social situations to be easier than they used to be, even something as stupid as buying a car was 10x less stressful than it used to be for me (and I got a couple grand better of a deal than I usually would have). Once you get over knocking on the door of a strangers house and realizing that a) most people are actually pretty cool and b) the vast majority of the time you are going to be totally fine no matter what, a lot of other things feel like a cakewalk. I met more new people in 6 months than in the prior 6 years and since we were all going to a similar stressful time, connecting was easy for once (even though aside from politics personality wise nobody was that similar to me).

All that to say this: forget (or at least, demphasize) the typical social stuff and find a cause that you can get on board with, just pull the trigger and show up and say "what can I do?". Don't spend ages shopping around for something to do (I've done that, I had no less than 60 bookmarks from a volunteermatch.org at one point before this, never did a single one of them), look around in your area (volunteermatch.org is not bad if you don't abuse it like I did), find anything that will involve working with other people you don't know (both other volunteers and strangers ideally, which is a lot of things) and just sign yourself up and do it. In my experience once you are actually there, nature kind of takes its course. I may be lucky in that but my problem has largely been hesitation. If you are male you will find in a lot of volunteer situations that you will be one of the few men and your contributions will be appreciated if you don't hold back and give it your best shot. You won't have to deal with the weirdness of finding a like-minded social group to fit into and honestly, I enjoyed the interactions I had more than I usually would have in a purely social environment (sometimes working towards a common goal that isn't job is more fun than just hanging out).

I know this was long as hell but your comment got the juices flowing, sorry if it was a slog but I've had my perception change quite a lot over the last year (in some ways at least) and I would like to think that other people can have a similar experience.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#73
Only few things made me feel more isolated than using Facebook. Living newly in Tokyo, having a hard time making new friends, everyone seemed to live these wild an exciting lives. Left the service, the disconnect from my old friends made it easier, made new ones. A new life commenced.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#74
One observation I've had: I feel/have felt more isolated when I don't have close connections with people around me but I am around a lot of people. I grew up in a really rural area and spent a lot of time outside alone and never felt isolated in nature. However once you get out in the city, get an internet connection etc, all the sudden you do feel isolated.

Also, does anyone else like it when the power goes out? Its so surreal to be in the city without power (I'm used to it in the country however) and all the sudden everyone is on their porch or out in the street chatting. Then it comes on and everyone goes back into their little isolation chambers.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#75
post #5

I like the article, but I gotta ask: why the focus on "new research"? Is "old research" not good enough? I suppose it might not be, but some of it should really be at least brought up. Here's a book from 1974 [1] by Robert Weiss, whose first (sample) chapter [2] reads very similar to the NYTimes piece, and covers many of the same issues, even before the internet was around. In particular, it draws the line (much more…

Right. It's not an issue of technology, for the most part, but it's the way American cities are designed. Instead of mixed-use walkable neighborhoods where people with a variety of incomes and backgrounds live, and stay put, we have suburban fortresses where people live in a box, never talk to their neighbors, drive a box to work, work in a box, then do it all over again. The national highway system was great for a n…

Why is poor Appalachia (mostly white) low-crime? They have violent crime rates on par with "affluent" communities.

What about poor immigrant Asian communities? Low crime as well.

There must be another explanation for the drug and violence problems you discuss, unrelated to education and wealth.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#76
It's articles like this that genuinely make me wonder if I'm a weirdo because I actually prefer to be alone when at all possible.

And I like people! I have no trouble engaging in small talk while getting to know new folks. But man, they wear me out. Even ones I love. At the end of the day, I need aloneness if I'm going to recharge for tomorrow's challenges.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#77
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. It's not an issue of technology, for the most part, but it's the way American cities are designed. Instead of mixed-use walkable neighborhoods where people with a variety of incomes and backgrounds live, and stay put, we have suburban fortresses where people live in a box, never talk to their neighbors, drive a box to work, work in a box, then do it all over again. The national highway system was great for a n…

This is an extremely poor argument. Try starting a conversation on a Manhattan subway. The lack of boxes between you and your fellow commuters does not make it remotely acceptable to interact with them, nor should it. It is much harder to meet friends who are separated by 5 miles of bus ride than 5 miles of freeway. It is much harder to actually hear each other at a crowded bar than someone's home, but only the very…

Your argument is poor, too. I see people starting conversations in subways all the time, and occasionally start them myself. I've never regretted it. Driving back from work in a bunch of cars, it's of course impossible, and it's amazing how easy it is to get angry with other drivers.

It's easier to meet people in a city, where the 5 miles of a bus ride can cover a neighborhood of a hundred thousand people and hundreds of venues to meet them, while the freeway ride in a suburb will cover less than ten thousand. And what does living with someone have to do with it? We're talking about interacting with people outside your house. I think US urban planning has certainly sucked, and the sprawl will hurt us socially as well as economically.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#78
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. It's not an issue of technology, for the most part, but it's the way American cities are designed. Instead of mixed-use walkable neighborhoods where people with a variety of incomes and backgrounds live, and stay put, we have suburban fortresses where people live in a box, never talk to their neighbors, drive a box to work, work in a box, then do it all over again. The national highway system was great for a n…

Terrible. I wish I could be governor or something and make sure that we stop this. It makes me sad. How would you stop this as governor? I have a feeling your solution would be far worse than the problem you're trying to solve.

I would build mixed-use development neighborhoods, and create spaces where people would be able to meet together for events, etc. I'd move highways that go straight through the downtown area and reroute them around the city. I'd make cities more walk/bike/subway/bus - able and work on smart regulation that would allow for mixed-use development so people could work-live-play in different areas.

I'd also fix the schools. But that's a much larger discussion.

This is my opinion.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#79

One observation I've had: I feel/have felt more isolated when I don't have close connections with people around me but I am around a lot of people. I grew up in a really rural area and spent a lot of time outside alone and never felt isolated in nature. However once you get out in the city, get an internet connection etc, all the sudden you do feel isolated. Also, does anyone else like it when the power goes out? Its…

> I feel/have felt more isolated when I don't have close connections with people around me but I am around a lot of people.

I really like Venkat’s write-up about masks[0]. Large cities, dense yet impersonal, strain our voice masks. Smaller communities, what you likely experienced in the rural area when you were not outside alone, can be psychologically healing but on the other hand strain our exit masks. Everyone has their own tipping point—you seem less susceptible to exit mask stress than me, for example.

[0] http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2015/05/20/pretending-to-care-pret...

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#80

It's articles like this that genuinely make me wonder if I'm a weirdo because I actually prefer to be alone when at all possible. And I like people! I have no trouble engaging in small talk while getting to know new folks. But man, they wear me out. Even ones I love. At the end of the day, I need aloneness if I'm going to recharge for tomorrow's challenges.

Sort of anecdotally, I think the big difference is whether it's voluntary or involuntary aloneness. Even the difference between 1 person and 0 persons to just call/talk to is huge
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