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Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People

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Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People

#21

I did read the article through, but made up my mind that the author is presenting a flawed argument when I saw how quickly he skimmed through his base premises, not really giving them much in terms of fair thought. In particular, I don't see how he can so blithely assume so easily that there is no quantum effect in the brain structure. I feel there's some degree of arrogance there, as we have not yet even begun to un…

> so blithely assume so easily that there is no quantum effect in the brain structure.

He is following the mainstream opinion on this view, so does not have to justify it in detail. Almost nobody subscribes to Penrose's proposal.

> Our best approximations of intelligence are analogous to the comparison between sewing by hand vs the mechanics of a sewing machine, only the sewing machine remains far inferior (at least for now).

There's a blithe assumption of your own, which you don't attempt to justify. Newell and Simon's physical symbol system hypothesis is still taken seriously by mainstream AI, and it has the opposing view: that intelligence is a computational process, and thus we understand many fundamental things about it already.

I'm not taking a position here, just clarifying what the dominant positions are right now.

Also, sewing machines are better at sewing than 99% of people by any metric I can think of, and faster than 100% of people. They also do probably >90% of all the sewing on the planet. So I don't think your analogy does the work you intended.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People

#22
"The second premise is that the brain is an ordinary configuration of matter, albeit an extraordinarily complicated one. If we knew enough, and had the technology, we could exactly copy its structure and emulate its behavior with electronic components, just like we can simulate very basic neural anatomy today."

We could have a computer program that perfectly simulates the brain, but has some nasty O(2^N) complexity algorithm parts that are carried out in constant time by physical processes such as protein folding. Thus, in theory we could simulate a brain inside of a computer but the program would never get anywhere, even assuming Moore's law would continue indefinitely.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People

#23
Pretty poorly argued. The AI alarmists simply argue that if the super-intelligence's objective isn't defined correctly, the super-intelligence will wipe us out as a mere consequence of pursuing its objective, not that the super-intelligence will try to conquer us in a specific way like Einstein putting his cat in a cage. The alarmists' argument is analogous to humans wiping out ecosystems and species by merely doing what humans do and not by consciously trying to achieve that destruction. Many of the author's arguments stem from this fundamental mistake.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People

#24
"The assumption that any intelligent agent will want to recursively self-improve, let alone conquer the galaxy, to better achieve its goals makes unwarranted assumptions about the nature of motivation."

This isn't just an unreflective assumption. The argument is laid out in much more detail in "The Basic AI Drives" (Omohundro 2008, https://selfawaresystems.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ai_driv...), which is expanded on in a 2012 paper (http://www.nickbostrom.com/superintelligentwill.pdf).

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People

#25
post #9
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are quantum effects complicated? They are random, however our behavior is not very random at all.

Given that even photosynthesis uses quantum effects (yes, really) to get it's basic functions done it doesn't seem extremely far-fetched that nervous systems make use of these as well, assuming there is a theory that presupposes these effects (if we can explain neurons without them coherently, why should they involve these effects a.k.a. Occam's Razor).

There 's nothing suggesting that neurons are not deterministic, in fact they are simulated pretty well with some cable theory and HH models. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodgkin%E2%80%93Huxley_model

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People

#26

'In particular, there's no physical law that puts a cap on intelligence at the level of human beings.' Maybe not, but there are definitely very physical laws governing everything else, that a superintelligent being's ambitions would run into. A superintelligent being isn't going to be able to build a superliminal reactionless drive if the laws of the universe say it isn't possible. More relevant, a superintelligent b…

The place where AI alarmists seem to forget this most often is in computational complexity, and particularly in the power of super-hyper-computers to simulate reality. Bostrom in particular doesn't seem to appreciate the constraints complexity theory puts on what an AI could calculate (unless he thinks P=NP).

Here's a response about why complexity theory may not constrain AI that much: https://www.gwern.net/Complexity%20vs%20AI

It is something "AI alarmists" think about.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People

#27
"Put another way, this is the premise that the mind arises out of ordinary physics... If you are very religious, you might believe that a brain is not possible without a soul. But for most of us, this is an easy premise to accept."

The thing that irks me about this is how it reinforces a common (and in my opinion, false) dichotomy: either you believe the mind is explicable in terms of ordinary physics or you believe in a soul and are therefore religious. I feel like there should be a third way, one that admits something vital is missing from the physicalist picture but doesn't make up a story about what that thing is. There is a huge question mark at the heart of neuroscience -- the famed Explanatory Gap -- and I think we should be able to recognize that question mark without being labeled a Supernaturalist. Consciousness is weird!

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People

#28
I've always wondered if the problems an intelligence solves are exponentially hard so even if we build a super intelligence it wouldn't be all that much smarter than we are.

For example compare how many more cities in the traveling salesman problem a super computer can solve vs your grandmas pc. It's more but surprisingly not all that many more.

What do you think of that idea?

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People

#29
"Not many people know that Einstein was a burly, muscular fellow. But if Einstein tried to get a cat in a carrier, and the cat didn't want to go, you know what would happen to Einstein. He would have to resort to a brute-force solution that has nothing to do with intelligence, and in that matchup the cat could do pretty well for itself."

This seems, actually, like a perfect argument going in the other direction. Every day, millions of people put cats into boxes, despite the cats not being interested. If you offered to pay a normal, reasonably competent person $1,000 to get a reluctant cat in a box, do you really think they simply would not be able to do it? Heck, humans manage to keep tigers in zoos, where millions of people see them every year, with a tiny serious injury rate, even though tigers are aggressive and predatory by default and can trivially overpower humans.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People

#30

'In particular, there's no physical law that puts a cap on intelligence at the level of human beings.' Maybe not, but there are definitely very physical laws governing everything else, that a superintelligent being's ambitions would run into. A superintelligent being isn't going to be able to build a superliminal reactionless drive if the laws of the universe say it isn't possible. More relevant, a superintelligent b…

The place where AI alarmists seem to forget this most often is in computational complexity, and particularly in the power of super-hyper-computers to simulate reality. Bostrom in particular doesn't seem to appreciate the constraints complexity theory puts on what an AI could calculate (unless he thinks P=NP).

Why would they be any more constrained than our biological brains?

Humans are able to calculate plenty with a relatively small amount of mass and energy.

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