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Hedge Fund Is Building an Algorithmic Model From Its Employees’ Brains

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Re: Hedge Fund Is Building an Algorithmic Model From Its Employees’ Brains

#41

That has got to be the worst case of group think ever. What happens if you challenge one of the "principles"?

Sounds like you lose upside down Christmas trees at the company party, get demoted from co-CEO, get fired, or get chewed out so hard you cry in the bathroom.

Honestly, I just read a few other articles about Bridgewater Associates, and even though it seems cult-like, I think the principles probably help prevent group-think. For instance, the second most important goal is no talking about people behind their back. If any of the companies I worked at had this rule, I'd think they were trying to make people toe the company line. However, this rule actually supports the first rule, encouraging transparency, really well.

For instance, have you ever been in a situation where you are doing something wrong, only to find out later that people noticed but nobody told you? The consequences aren't that bad if your tie is on backward, but I've made expensive mistakes because nobody spoke up, and I've been in organizations where there was such a negative stigma around "confrontation" that mistakes happened all the time and gossip was rampant.

Studies have shown that groups that are told they much come to a consensus make worse decisions than groups that are encouraged to disagree. The difference can be pretty marginal, but a marginal difference in return can result in huge gains or huge losses when you are dealing with markets.

It definitely reflects poorly on a company when stories come out about employees crying in the bathroom. One can only imagine the psychological horrors that must go on at such a company! However, in my experience, there is a certain kind of person whose entire self-worth is based on their success. They are typically very high achieving, but failure is an anathema to them. They try to avoid failure at all costs. They end up under incredible strain, because failure is inevitable.

I've known a lot of people like this. There was one person I knew who was so stressed when she didn't know a question on an exam that she ended up vomiting all over the test. Another time, I caused a woman to cry in Model U.N. by vetoing her Security Council resolution as the Russian Federation. If you know anything about Russia and the Security Council, a veto is not exactly an uncommon measure from them. However, it meant we ended 5 days of debate on an issue without passing a resolution. She took the veto as hard as if I had vetoed a judgement of her character. She was a grad student at a prestigious school, so I'd say she had to have been in her mid-20s, which is definitely old enough to be working at a high-powered investment firm.

I personally think I'd like that environment. I do really well when I have a lot of autonomy, and I don't need much supervision to work. I hate it when people don't criticize my work. It just makes me paranoid; I know I'm not perfect, and I know there are flaws. I learn from every critique and failure. I know a lot of people that would have a mental breakdown in that environment though. It's hard to tell who those people are ahead of time though, because they are such high-achieving individuals, and their anxiety about failure is basically invisible.

So, to answer your question more seriously, I think their continued success is evidence that they must comfortable challenging their beliefs. However, I do think a holy book full of principles seems a little cult-like, especially in light of the fact that they are building an AI clone of their CEO.

Re: Hedge Fund Is Building an Algorithmic Model From Its Employees’ Brains

#43
Since reading it maybe 6 or 7 years ago, I've thought Principles is a great handbook for personal reflection and self-improvement, especially in that it continually guides all discussion back to the lodestar of thinking for oneself and asking "is this true?".

However, I'd also say that Principles is a lousy "how to manage people" manual, because it tries to algorithmically describe how to deal with unpleasant interactions that require emotional intelligence, and harps really hard on the concept of "the truth will set you free and if you can't handle the truth you need to GTFO of our culture". Reading this article has reinforced that opinion.

Two other random observations here:

- These guys are a big Palantir client...I wonder if Palantir has any role in building this new system. They weren't mentioned in the article.

- Isn't "Overseer" is a really, really fucking bad formal job title for anyone at any organization?

Re: Hedge Fund Is Building an Algorithmic Model From Its Employees’ Brains

#44

You can't possibly get enough training data for this.

I don't think it is fair to say it is not possible. There is an AI system out there that has correctly predicted the superfecta for the Kentucky Derby based soley on user predictions. http://www.newsweek.com/artificial-intelligence-turns-20-110...

UNU is not AI, it's polling. Bridgewater would like to develop an AI that minimizes human input, not just a better method of combining different human opinions.

Re: Hedge Fund Is Building an Algorithmic Model From Its Employees’ Brains

#45
post #8

Sounds like a horrible place to work! If things go as planned, "Horrible Place to Work(tm)" will have in install package for it.

Yeah, really. "The pressure is such that those who stay sometimes are seen crying in the bathrooms, said five current and former staff members." What's the upshot? Seven figure salaries or something?

there are people crying in the bathrooms at every big firm on the planet.

Re: Hedge Fund Is Building an Algorithmic Model From Its Employees’ Brains

#46
post #32

I'm gonna guess these employees have a work for hire contract of some sort, so that their ideas or potentially copyrightable or patentable methods, belong to their employer.

So does every large technology company including Google, Apple, Twitter, Facebook, Netflix, etc.

Re: Hedge Fund Is Building an Algorithmic Model From Its Employees’ Brains

#47

Since reading it maybe 6 or 7 years ago, I've thought Principles is a great handbook for personal reflection and self-improvement, especially in that it continually guides all discussion back to the lodestar of thinking for oneself and asking "is this true?". However, I'd also say that Principles is a lousy "how to manage people" manual, because it tries to algorithmically describe how to deal with unpleasant interac…

I assume "overseer" is a bit tongue in cheek.

Re: Hedge Fund Is Building an Algorithmic Model From Its Employees’ Brains

#48

It reminds of "managing the numbers". Not to say Dalio himself doesn't know what he's doing. But translating that to software, yeah...good luck. It's challenging enough to translate simple trading systems into machine code, and have it reproduce human results. At least that's my experience. To distill your knowledge and wisdom down to a set of algorithms, the complex interactions, discretion on when to use and ignore…

I did a job on vWorker which was implementing a trading algorithm. The guy had a system, was using it to trade and had a paid service for people to buy it from him and had a paid subscription video channel of videos of him trading the previous day.

When I used what he thought were signals he was following (exponential smoothing, direction finding and spread detection iirc) it generated plenty of "false" trades.

It ended up he refused to pay because "obviously" my code was applying the rules wrong, not his rules didn't work.

I eventually got 50% of the fee and learned quite a lot in the process of why trading algos will struggle to work when faced with real random walks.

Re: Hedge Fund Is Building an Algorithmic Model From Its Employees’ Brains

#49
"Though outsiders expected Mr. Ferrucci would use his talents to help find hidden signals in the financial markets, his job has focused more narrowly on analyzing the torrent of data the firm gathers about its employees. The data include ratings employees give each other throughout the work day, called 'dots'"

This -- Isn't -- JEOPARDY!! This is shit.

Re: Hedge Fund Is Building an Algorithmic Model From Its Employees’ Brains

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, really. "The pressure is such that those who stay sometimes are seen crying in the bathrooms, said five current and former staff members." What's the upshot? Seven figure salaries or something?

there are people crying in the bathrooms at every big firm on the planet.

Solution is to move the bathrooms into the open plan. No more slacking or being aa wimp in private.

Or even better give everyone nappies so they can clean themselves on their own dime. Once they get home.

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